Courage beyond question and Victory through deference

L5R CCG Rules board, 22 April 2015 to 23 April 2015

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 22 April 2015

Scenario: Opponent is attacking. His unit has become bowed during the battle (which he wins). During the battle he plays Courage beyond Question on the bowed unit. I play Victory through deference to remove Conqueror.

After resolution what happens that unit (both the bowing and straightening happen after resolution). The argument is that both effects happen at the same time, so the active player (attacker) chooses the order.

1) It bows and goes home and CBQ straightens it at home. In this scenario - why does CGQ give conqueror - the keyword is irrelevant to the card effect. 2) It straightens from CBQ and then bows out at battle resolution (as it hasn't got conqueror)

Courage beyond question. Battle: Give your target Samurai Conqueror. Straighten his unit after this battle resolves. (A Conqueror's unit doesn't bow after battle.)

Comp rules. iv. After Resolution Then, the battle’s resolution ends. In its aftermath, a number of things happen. All attacking units at that battlefield bow, then return home, as effects of battle resolution.

Alex Jones (rules official), 23 April 2015

Scenario: Opponent is attacking. His unit has become bowed during the battle (which he wins). During the battle he plays Courage beyond Question on the bowed unit. I play Victory through deference to remove Conqueror.

After resolution what happens that unit (both the bowing and straightening happen after resolution). The argument is that both effects happen at the same time, so the active player (attacker) chooses the order.

1) It bows and goes home and CBQ straightens it at home. In this scenario - why does CGQ give conqueror - the keyword is irrelevant to the card effect. 2) It straightens from CBQ and then bows out at battle resolution (as it hasn't got conqueror)

Courage beyond question. Battle: Give your target Samurai Conqueror. Straighten his unit after this battle resolves. (A Conqueror's unit doesn't bow after battle.)

Comp rules. iv. After Resolution Then, the battle’s resolution ends. In its aftermath, a number of things happen. All attacking units at that battlefield bow, then return home, as effects of battle resolution.

Both the bow effect of resolution, and the straighten effect of Courage Beyond Question occur, let's say "later" than battle resolution - but only one occurs "after" battle resolution in the sense defined by the Timing rules.

The straighten effect of Courage Beyond Question is triggered "after this battle resolves", but the bowing of attacking units happens in the After Resolution" procedure, which is the next in the sequence of procedures for fighting a battle - it's not an effect triggered by the end of battle resolution.

Option 2 is correct: It straightens from CBQ and then bows out at battle resolution (as it hasn't got conqueror)