Second City Market

L5R CCG Rules board, 27 December 2014 to 19 January 2015

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 27 December 2014

Second City Market: Open, Search your Dynasty deck for a Market or Port. Recruit it (bowed). Destroy this Holding.

I declare the action on Second City Market, and bow a holding to produce 2 gold for the action, since I want to get a Kobune Port. After searching, I found no 2GC market/port on the deck, but I do have a 1GC market.

With the new gold cost mechanics, how does this work? If I paid 2G for the action, can I recruit a 1GC card? If I do, do I lose the extra gold or it goes to the pool?

Thanks!

Jon Palmer (rules official), 5 January 2015

Second City Market: Open, Search your Dynasty deck for a Market or Port. Recruit it (bowed). Destroy this Holding.

I declare the action on Second City Market, and bow a holding to produce 2 gold for the action, since I want to get a Kobune Port. After searching, I found no 2GC market/port on the deck, but I do have a 1GC market.

With the new gold cost mechanics, how does this work? If I paid 2G for the action, can I recruit a 1GC card? If I do, do I lose the extra gold or it goes to the pool?

Thanks!

REVERSED (see below)

Recruit requires you to pay the exact cost of the card being Recruited. However, your order of operations here is a little out of whack, and therefore you're going to be okay.

First, you search for the Holding to Recruit. At this point, you'll see that you only have a 1G Market in your deck. Then, move to the step of Recruiting that Market. You bow a holding to produce 2G at this step, use 1G for the Recruit procedure, and have an additional 1G in your pool.

A player, 6 January 2015

While I like the ruling made here. I don't think it's correct because for Second City Market you pay gold as part of the action before you search for a holding.

Second City Market: Open, (bow), * (gold) : Search your Dynasty deck for a Market or Port. Recruit it (bowed). Destroy this Holding.

So you would pay 2 gold before searching your deck and then the recruit action checks against how much was initially paid. And Overpaying isn't possible so you couldn't recruit a 1 gp holding if you paid 2 for the action.

Jon Palmer (rules official), 13 January 2015

While I like the ruling made here. I don't think it's correct because for Second City Market you pay gold as part of the action before you search for a holding.

Second City Market: Open, (bow), * (gold) : Search your Dynasty deck for a Market or Port. Recruit it (bowed). Destroy this Holding.

So you would pay 2 gold before searching your deck and then the recruit action checks against how much was initially paid. And Overpaying isn't possible so you couldn't recruit a 1 gp holding if you paid 2 for the action.

After discussion, I've realized I was wrong here, and in fact with the specific situation of Second City Market, you're paying the gold before you search the holding (so Bookkeeper doesn't see that you're recruiting a holding). Bookkeeper will not gain tokens in this case. This is a REVERSAL.

A player, 14 January 2015

Sorry, but I don`t get it.

You didn`t answer the question, but you are telling something about the bookkeeper (quiet interesting after all)?

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=112073

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=112041

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=111851

Original Question:

Second City Market: Open, Search your Dynasty deck for a Market or Port. Recruit it (bowed). Destroy this Holding.

I declare the action on Second City Market, and bow a holding to produce 2 gold for the action, since I want to get a Kobune Port. After searching, I found no 2GC market/port on the deck, but I do have a 1GC market.

With the new gold cost mechanics, how does this work? If I paid 2G for the action, can I recruit a 1GC card? If I do, do I lose the extra gold or it goes to the pool?

REVERSED (see below)

Recruit requires you to pay the exact cost of the card being Recruited. However, your order of operations here is a little out of whack, and therefore you're going to be okay.

First, you search for the Holding to Recruit. At this point, you'll see that you only have a 1G Market in your deck. Then, move to the step of Recruiting that Market. You bow a holding to produce 2G at this step, use 1G for the Recruit procedure, and have an additional 1G in your pool.

below:

After discussion, I've realized I was wrong here, and in fact with the specific situation of Second City Market, you're paying the gold before you search the holding (so Bookkeeper doesn't see that you're recruiting a holding). Bookkeeper will not gain tokens in this case. This is a REVERSAL.

Alex Jones (rules official), 16 January 2015

Sorry, but I don`t get it.

You didn`t answer the question, but you are telling something about the bookkeeper (quiet interesting after all)?

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=112073

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=112041

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=111851

Original Question:

below:

I've checked with Design, and there is to be no errata of Second City Market. So, it works like this:

In Step B, Pay Costs, you may produce gold as normal, paying some amount from that just produced and/or from your pool for the action. Note that the amount you pay is determined at this point and must be declared here.

In Step D, Resolve Effects, you search your deck for a Market or Port. If it has gold cost equal to the gold you paid in Step B, Recruit it; otherwise, discard it. If you paid 4g and can only find Kobune Ports, tough: the gold is wasted. As this is gold that has been used to pay for an action, it does not go into the pool - only gold which is produced but not spent goes into the pool.

A player, 18 January 2015

In regards to this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=111851#p1452990

If I only have a 4 gold production holding available, but want to get a 2 cost holding from my deck, can I announce that 2 of the gold is going towards the action and 2 is left floating?

(At which point, if I only have a 1 cost holding that I buy, 1 gold is wasted, but I still have 2 gold floating.)

Thanks,

Alex Jones (rules official), 19 January 2015

In regards to this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=111851#p1452990

If I only have a 4 gold production holding available, but want to get a 2 cost holding from my deck, can I announce that 2 of the gold is going towards the action and 2 is left floating?

(At which point, if I only have a 1 cost holding that I buy, 1 gold is wasted, but I still have 2 gold floating.)

Thanks,

That's fine. During the Pay Costs step, you bow the Holding to produce 4g, of which you allocate 2g to pay for the action; the remaining 2g goes into your pool.

However, the text of Recruit says, "a ... Holding ... with Gold Cost equal to the amount you paid." If you pay 2g for the action, you cannot Recruit a 1g Holding.