A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 17 June 2014
Hello,
I have several questions to which i haven't found an answer that seem consistent (to me) considering some interactions between cards like the company you keep, Kimura, proclaim, look into the void, and such. Sorry if i raise points that were answered before (either there, there, there, or there. Or elsewhere, i haven't found other relevant threads).
If i get the "mercantile + brilliant" ruling right, a honor gain or loss of zero cannot be increased and i wonder if there is a distinction between "zero base" and "modified to zero"?
Here are my questions:
A) I use Kimura to increase a proclaim to 4 (using a 4 FV card), but i am under the effect of company you keep. So i bring a dishonored guy into play and gain nothing. using Kimura's ability was probably useless. right?
B) I use Kimura to increase a Proclaim to 4 (using a 4 FV card), I have 2 2ph guys i will bring into play and i intend to proclaim one of them. My opponent has a Look into the soul on a 6Chi Shugenja. what happens? B.1) Is the order in which to resolve the conflicting math parts (minus 3 versus increased to 4) decided by the acting player? (in that case, as an active player, i would probably always choose to enact "increased to 4" last, and gain 4, *trumping* look into the soul) B.2) Is said order fixed ? Which is it, and if i dare, why? (tossing court scribe and invocation in can spice the thing). B.3) Is there a possibility where the honor gain is reduced to zero and hence cannot have further augmentations (with the previous example, if i choose not to enact "increased to 4" first, look into the soul reduces my gain to 0, and this gain cannot be increased anymore) B.4) as i see CR, proclaim is a modification of the recruit action, hence recruit is the action being interrupted by look into the soul. Modifying this action (with the proclaim part added to it) is a choice of me (the acting player), and interrupting it with look into the soul is a choice of my opponent. Is there an order in which these choices are made? Is it possible that my opponent has to declare first if he intends to interrupt recruit with look into the soul before i announce that i intend to proclaim my personality?
C) I Bring Yuko into play, but i am under the effect of company you keep. I pay her invest cost. is the following scenario right? Invest and proclaim have the same timing, hence being the acting player, i choose to resolve the invest, it is a trait printed on Yuko, so she is rehonored instead of bringing me 1 honor, and i gain 3 by proclaiming her.
D) Yuko + invest + proclaim versus look into the soul (on a 2 Chi shugenja). is the following scenario right? There are 2 separate honor gains : 1 and 3. Both are reduced, and eventually, i gain 2 honor : 1(-1) and 3(-1). If the Shugenja had 4Chi, it would be a 1 honor gain : 1(-2) -> zero, and 3(-2).
Thank you for your insight.
The company you keep : Political Open: Target a Personality. Personalities his controller Recruits (this turn) with greater Personal Honor than the target has now are dishonored before they enter play.
Kimura : Air Limited: Discard a card. Increase the Honor you gain from your next Proclaim this turn to equal the card's Focus Value.
Yuko : Invest : Gain 1 Honor.
Look into the soul : Air Interrupt, bow : Reduce each Honor gain from the action (to a minimum of 0) by half this Shugenja's Chi, rounded down.
A player, 26 June 2014
A) I use Kimura to increase a proclaim to 4 (using a 4 FV card), but i am under the effect of company you keep. So i bring a dishonored guy into play and gain nothing. using Kimura's ability was probably useless. right?
Correct, since the zero gain isn't really a gain and therefore isn't affected
B) I use Kimura to increase a Proclaim to 4 (using a 4 FV card), I have 2 2ph guys i will bring into play and i intend to proclaim one of them. My opponent has a Look into the soul on a 6Chi Shugenja. what happens?
Both effects have the same timing, so active player (that is you) gets to choose. Probably you'll want to apply Kimura's effects the last.
B.1) Is the order in which to resolve the conflicting math parts (minus 3 versus increased to 4) decided by the acting player? (in that case, as an active player, i would probably always choose to enact "increased to 4" last, and gain 4, *trumping* look into the soul)
Correct
B.2) Is said order fixed ? Which is it, and if i dare, why? (tossing court scribe and invocation in can spice the thing).
No. The timing is the same, both are delayed effects modifying another.
B.3) Is there a possibility where the honor gain is reduced to zero and hence cannot have further augmentations (with the previous example, if i choose not to enact "increased to 4" first, look into the soul reduces my gain to 0, and this gain cannot be increased anymore)
Not if both effects have the same timing. Negation, prevention, delaying and substitution work differently. As long as you have pending modifiers to apply, they'll apply and the final result will consider all of them. One modifier may not interfere with other modifiers to the point of making them fail.
B.4) as i see CR, proclaim is a modification of the recruit action, hence recruit is the action being interrupted by look into the soul. Modifying this action (with the proclaim part added to it) is a choice of me (the acting player), and interrupting it with look into the soul is a choice of my opponent. Is there an order in which these choices are made? Is it possible that my opponent has to declare first if he intends to interrupt recruit with look into the soul before i announce that i intend to proclaim my personality?
You must indicate you're Proclaiming after announcing the action (either the Recruit player ability or the action that creates the Recruit set of effects)
C) I Bring Yuko into play, but i am under the effect of company you keep. I pay her invest cost. is the following scenario right? Invest and proclaim have the same timing, hence being the acting player, i choose to resolve the invest, it is a trait printed on Yuko, so she is rehonored instead of bringing me 1 honor, and i gain 3 by proclaiming her.
You are right.
D) Yuko + invest + proclaim versus look into the soul (on a 2 Chi shugenja). is the following scenario right? There are 2 separate honor gains : 1 and 3. Both are reduced, and eventually, i gain 2 honor : 1(-1) and 3(-1). If the Shugenja had 4Chi, it would be a 1 honor gain : 1(-2) -> zero, and 3(-2).
This particular question needs to be put under discussion, sorry!
Thank you for your insight.
You're welcome