A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 25 March 2014
I'm following up an pretty old ruling here: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 9&t=106074
I understand what the statement means but it looks very wrong on a number of points and I would need further clarification.
The reference rulebook clearly states (on p8) that
Battle actions can only be taken during a battle’s Combat Segment.
Open Emotion, as per card text, doesn't turn any of the Repeatble Battle on Come One At A Time into Repeatable Engage. So they're still Repeatable Battle.
The reference rulebook also states p17 that:
If the type of additional action is not specified, it is the type appropriate to the current action round – Limited in your Action Phase, Open in any Action Phase, Engage in the Engage Segment and Battle in the Combat Segment.
But, in the case at hand, the type of action is specified by Come One At A Time's own text "coming from it" -> one of the Repeatable Battle.
In the quoted ruling, you state that "cards beat rules" but the card sepcifically doesn't try to break any, it's your interpretation that tries to. Usually, when a card tries to go against the rules, it just clearly states so (that's what the Absent, Repeatable, Home, etc... keywords are for or text like Ambush's "assign the other Personnality to defend there, even if bowed") and Come On At A Time clearly doesn't try that to go against any rule (like COAAT would say for instance "even during Engage segment" explicitly). By the way, even the old version of COAAT had the "if legal" reminder text.
Finally, the rule in the reference rulebook is NOT cards beat rules, it's:
If the text of any card or ability contradicts a more general rule in the rulebook, follow the card or ability’s text, not the rulebook.
(there's nothing that breaks the "you can take a Repeatable Battle as a Repeatable Engage" to follow on the text of COAAT )
There is nothing in the rules that allows Battle actions to be taken during the Engage segment, even additional Battle and I would like a clarification about how you came to the conclusion that it was fine to take an additional Battle action during the Engage segment without something that explicitly breaks the rules in the card text.
A player, 26 March 2014
I'm following up an pretty old ruling here: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 9&t=106074
I understand what the statement means but it looks very wrong on a number of points and I would need further clarification.
The reference rulebook clearly states (on p8) that
Battle actions can only be taken during a battle’s Combat Segment.
Open Emotion, as per card text, doesn't turn any of the Repeatble Battle on Come One At A Time into Repeatable Engage. So they're still Repeatable Battle.
First, you forget about Cardinal Rule #1
Cards vs. rules: If the text of any card contradicts these Comprehensive Rules, follow the card text, not the rules. Something that changes one aspect of a rule does not by itself change any other aspects of the rule.
That's when Come One at a Time's own text kicks in: Battle: Destroy a Terrain (if able). Put this Terrain into play. Take an additional action granted by it.
Since COaaT explicitly tells you to take an additional Battle action from one of its Repeatable Battles, this particular situation allows you to bend that rule, because there's no other way to fulfil the effect if not waiving that particular rule. This kind of situation doesn't come up often, but sometimes card interactions occur.
The reference rulebook also states p17 that:
If the type of additional action is not specified, it is the type appropriate to the current action round – Limited in your Action Phase, Open in any Action Phase, Engage in the Engage Segment and Battle in the Combat Segment.
But, in the case at hand, the type of action is specified by Come One At A Time's own text "coming from it" -> one of the Repeatable Battle.
Correct. But still, there's no Engage action granted by COaaT, so the only way to fulfil the card effect is by invoking Cardinal Rule #1.
In the quoted ruling, you state that "cards beat rules" but the card sepcifically doesn't try to break any, it's your interpretation that tries to.
Certainly it's not explicit, as the situation comes not from a single card but from an interaction of two specific cards. But there's no other way to make it happen in this situation. Either you ignore the card effect, or you have it beat the rules. We rarely bring up the so-called "Rule of Obvious Legality" but this is one of those cases. It is a very exceptional situation.
Usually, when a card tries to go against the rules, it just clearly states so (that's what the Absent, Repeatable, Home, etc... keywords are for or text like Ambush's "assign the other Personnality to defend there, even if bowed") and Come On At A Time clearly doesn't try that to go against any rule (like COAAT would say for instance "even during Engage segment" explicitly).
Again, it's not one card, but the interaction of two.
This is not just my decision, it's a decision coming from an argument held by the entire Rules Team and the answer in my last post in that thread was decided by consensus. It's *highly* unlikely we'll change our minds after having one of such discussions, unless you come up with a *very solid* argument.
By the way, even the old version of COAAT had the "if legal" reminder text.
That's why there are MRPs.
Finally, the rule in the reference rulebook is NOT cards beat rules, it's:
If the text of any card or ability contradicts a more general rule in the rulebook, follow the card or ability’s text, not the rulebook.
Thank you for the lesson.