Shosuro Hotaka

L5R CCG Rules board, 14 February 2014 to 21 May 2014

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 14 February 2014

Shosuro Hotaka

Courtier • Destined • Scorpion Clan

Invest 2: Discard a card from your hand to make a target player lose Honor equal to half the Focus Value, rounded up.

I'm a little unclear how the Invest ability and Destined interact.

When I recruit Hotaka, which of the following scenarios is correct:

A) I draw from Destined then decide whether or not to pay the Invest Cost and discard B) I decide to pay the invest cost and then draw from Destined and then discard C) I decide to pay the invest cost and discard, then draw from Destined

Thank you

A player, 15 February 2014

This is Under Discussion.

A player, 15 February 2014

About this.

What is the timing issue? Both Destined and Invest seem to have the same trigger (after entering play), so being the active player you could simply choose which to kick in first, right?

A player, 20 February 2014

Has there been any decision regarding this post?

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=106905

Thank you

A player, 21 February 2014

Not yet. Since a lot of people seems to be concerned about this particular issue, I'll explain a bit.

It's clear that both the card draw from Destined and the discard from Invest can occur in the order chosen by the active player (so wise players will usually choose to draw and then discard), but I can't confirm yet if the payment can be made *after* drawing the card or needs to be made in advance. The final wording of Invest in the Ivory Comprehensive Rules could modify the exact timing of the Invest payment, we still have to decide that minor detail that affects Hotaka, but could have greater repercusions.

If you need a temporary fix, assume that active player chooses between B) and C) in the OP, which are the restrictive answers, but having in mind that it's not written in stone.

A player, 21 May 2014

According to the exact CR definition of "Invest" in the Comprehensive Rules (pg 54), you must decide whether you pay the Invest cost or not at the point of paying for the Personality, Attachment or action from a Strategy. So, you must decide if you pay for Hotaka's Invest when paying the Gold Cost of the action Recruiting him.

Then the effects will apply in the order determined by the active player, since they all have the same timing "after XXX enters play". He will decide whether Destined or Invest applies first.