O-Ushi Sensei and Planted Evidence

L5R CCG Rules board, 20 January 2014 to 21 January 2014

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 20 January 2014

So it looks like O-Ushi sensei got a rewording in Oracle:

Before the resolution of another player's card's action that targeted one of your Personalities: Each time it checks your Personalities' Chi or Personal Honor, you may have it check the Personality's Force instead. After your Personality enters a duel, if the duel was from another player's card's effect: You may choose to have your Personality use Force as his duel stat in that duel. You will not gain Honor from duels.

I was wondering about how that interacts with the new format of an action since targetting now occurs during the action resolution step. For example, if someone targeted my personality with Planted Evidence.

Limited: Destroy a target Personality with 3 or lower Chi, or with 4 or lower Chi if you control a Ninja Personality. Lose Honor equal to your Starting Family Honor.

Does planted evidence target my personality with 3 or lower Chi and then destroy him making my O-ushi sensei helpless? or does planted evidence target my personality then destroy him if he has 3 or lower chi which I could use O-Ushi to compare against force?

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 21 January 2014

So it looks like O-Ushi sensei got a rewording in Oracle:

I was wondering about how that interacts with the new format of an action since targetting now occurs during the action resolution step. For example, if someone targeted my personality with Planted Evidence.

Does planted evidence target my personality with 3 or lower Chi and then destroy him making my O-ushi sensei helpless? or does planted evidence target my personality then destroy him if he has 3 or lower chi which I could use O-Ushi to compare against force?

You know, our dear O-Ushi hasn't quite gotten an Ivory update yet, unlike all her Sensei peers; the rewording you note is still the Emperor Edition version.

However, her current interaction is unlikely to change, and Planted Evidence WILL murder someone with 3 or less Chi, regardless of Force and the Sensei.

I see, here and there, old-school players and Legacy players saying how her current wording "nerfed" her, and she used to be able to affect targeting checks as well. Now, I'm not sure how it was contemporarily ruled exactly, as I was not really beyond my local FLGS scene at the time. But even her printed wording seems pretty clear to me that her check-altering doesn't kick in until AFTER the target is legally targeted, or else the whole process breaks down into a paradox; "I'm going to target your Personality with 3 or less Chi... except you have me check his Force... so I can't target him... so O-Ushi doesn't kick in, because it says "when I target"... what?"

So, now that targeting is all rolled into effects in Ivory, her Oracle wording trigger will probably change to "after targeting" rather than "before resolution". I just hadn't gotten to it yet, because I was trying to research the above player-claims, consider the ramifications of the change, etc.

Thanks for asking, though, and keep in mind I still haven't 100% decided and may yet be swayed by research and/or discussion.