No Way Out + Halls of the Forgotten

L5R CCG Rules board, 20 June 2013 to 21 June 2013

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 20 June 2013

Halls of the Forgotten: Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.

No Way Out: After this battle resolves, if its Province was not destroyed, destroy the targets of this card's action. Battle: Destroy a Terrain (if able). Put this Terrain into play. Target zero to two attacking cards.

I have two Berserkers at the battle and my opponent plays No Way out targeting both of them. If I use Halls of the Forgotten to delay No Way Out's targeting until after the battle ends, will No Way Out still kill him?

Essentially, does the "After this battle resolves" part happen before or after the battle ends?

Ben Higgins (rules official), 20 June 2013

Halls of the Forgotten: Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.

No Way Out: After this battle resolves, if its Province was not destroyed, destroy the targets of this card's action. Battle: Destroy a Terrain (if able). Put this Terrain into play. Target zero to two attacking cards.

I have two Berserkers at the battle and my opponent plays No Way out targeting both of them. If I use Halls of the Forgotten to delay No Way Out's targeting until after the battle ends, will No Way Out still kill him?

Essentially, does the "After this battle resolves" part happen before or after the battle ends?

"After this battle resolves" happens before "after this battle ends."

As described in the CR entry for Battles (http://rules.l5r.com/EE_Battles#Battles), the Resolution Segment happens as part C of a Battle, where the Final Steps (and the official end of the battle) happens as part D.

A player, 20 June 2013

Halls of the Forgotten: Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.

No Way Out: After this battle resolves, if its Province was not destroyed, destroy the targets of this card's action. Battle: Destroy a Terrain (if able). Put this Terrain into play. Target zero to two attacking cards.

Does No Way Out even have an effect that Halls of the Forgotten can delay?

Ben Higgins (rules official), 21 June 2013

Halls of the Forgotten: Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.

No Way Out: After this battle resolves, if its Province was not destroyed, destroy the targets of this card's action. Battle: Destroy a Terrain (if able). Put this Terrain into play. Target zero to two attacking cards.

Does No Way Out even have an effect that Halls of the Forgotten can delay?

You may react with Halls of the Forgotten, as the Battle action on No Way Out does target.

However, No Way Out's trait will not be delayed by Halls of the Forgotten, as it is not an effect of the Battle action.

Alex Jones (rules official), 21 June 2013

If I use Halls of the Forgotten to delay No Way Out's targeting until after the battle ends...

You'll note that targeting is not an effect: An effect is anything, other than a cost, that creates a card or other thing in the game, changes the characteristics or state of a card, stat or other thing in the game, adds restrictions or permissions to the game’s procedures, or creates a new instance of a game procedure.