A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 1 March 2013
Hi Rules Team,
I searched "Unit Destroy Negate" and many results came up rather close to this question, but nothing exactly on this topic.
I remember from both reading the EE Rules and random browsing on this Rules forum that if someone tries to take control of your unit but you have an attachment which would negate it's own transfer, this results in the whole unit not transferring. For example, a Mantis player wouldn't be able to use Yoritomo Sachina to take control of a unit that has the Moto House Guard attached. However, does the same logic apply to Unit Destruction?
For example, let's say I have a personality with Vigilant Riders attached. My opponent plays A Stain Cleansed against that unit. Would invoking Vigilant Riders' reaction save the Unit? I remember that Unit Destruction targets all cards simultaneously, so targeting the Unit with something like A Stain Cleansed would target the Riders, allowing for an opportunity to play the Riders' reaction. On the other hand, though, it would only save itself, and since the Personality would be dying, the card could still potentially go with it.
I would appreciate your wisdom on this.
Thanks!
Relevant Card Text:
None, really. This is more an idea question than a combo of specific cards. If you need them from my example, though...
Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Magistrate, target an enemy card without attachments or an enemy unit, and pay Gold equal to the card or unit's total Gold Cost minus 2: Destroy it.
After this card bows: Straighten it. Reaction: After another player's action targets a card in this unit: Negate this card's destruction from the action's effects.
A player, 2 March 2013
Hi Rules Team,
I searched "Unit Destroy Negate" and many results came up rather close to this question, but nothing exactly on this topic.
I remember from both reading the EE Rules and random browsing on this Rules forum that if someone tries to take control of your unit but you have an attachment which would negate it's own transfer, this results in the whole unit not transferring. For example, a Mantis player wouldn't be able to use Yoritomo Sachina to take control of a unit that has the Moto House Guard attached.
I honestly don't have an idea what you are talking about here. I guess you're confusing here restrictions on the Unique keyword, which can make Sachina XP's action fail (see here a precedent) or confusing the rules on Transfer with rules on taking control.
It is legal to take control of a unit with Moto House Guard if you are a Mantis Player. However, you can't transfer your newly gained Moto House Guard to your Mantis Personality, and if you already controlled a Moto House Guard (which seems unlikely though possible), the Unique keyword in both Moto House Guards would cause it to fail.
For example, let's say I have a personality with Vigilant Riders attached. My opponent plays A Stain Cleansed against that unit. Would invoking Vigilant Riders' reaction save the Unit?
No.
I remember that Unit Destruction targets all cards simultaneously, so targeting the Unit with something like A Stain Cleansed would target the Riders, allowing for an opportunity to play the Riders' reaction. On the other hand, though, it would only save itself, and since the Personality would be dying, the card could still potentially go with it.
Exactly. Vigilant Riders may react and try to negate their destruction "from" the action's effects. However if their Personality is still destroyed, and Vigilant Riders can't negate this, they still go the way of the dodo because the rulebook says so.
When a Personality leaves play, all his attached cards leave play in the same manner as he did. This leaving play is a rulebook effect contingent on the effect that took the Personality out of play, so the attachments are destroyed "for" (as a consequence of) the original effect, but not "by" the original effect.
It is not just the action's effects what destroy Vigilant Riders, the rules also destroy it.
A player, 4 March 2013
I remember that Unit Destruction targets all cards simultaneously,
I forgot to add, this part isn't true. Targeting a Unit only targets its Personality, not the attachments.