I Give You My Name + Ryoshun's Guidance / Suiteiru no Oni

L5R CCG Rules board, 16 October 2012 to 23 October 2012

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 16 October 2012

I am sure this has been discussed but I have having a difficult time finding the answer using the Advanced Search

Case 1: Chuda Niiro (3 Chi, 4 Gold Cost) with attached I Give You My Name and Ryoshun's Guidence (+1 Chi). Can I cast IGYMN, sacking Nirro and get a 8 (3 + 1 + 4) Gold cost Oni or is it only 7 (3 +4)?

Case 2: Chuda Niiro, Suiteiru no Oni, and Ryoshun's are in play. Suiteiru uses his ability to eat Niiro. Do I get 3 or 4 followers?

Case 3: Same scenario but now Niiro has an +1 Chi attachment. Do I get 3, 4, or 5?

And if the answer the is lesser for all cases, then does Ring of Fire work the same way or is it because the performer is choosen before the cost is paid and because of this rule

"If any of an action's targeting or performing choices become illegal at any point after the particular choice has occurred, the action still proceeds."

Ring of Fire Battle: Bow this card or discard it from your hand, destroy your performing Personality, and target an enemy Personality with equal or lower Chi: Destroy him.

I Give You My Name Limited: Bow this Shugenja and destroy your target Human Personality: Search your Dynasty deck or discard pile for a non-Unique Oni with Gold Cost lower than or equal to the Human's Gold Cost plus the performer's Chi. Put the Oni into play, ignoring Gold cost. Lose 2 Honor.

Suiteiru no Oni Open: Destroy your target unbowed Personality: Create a number of 1F Shadowlands • Nonhuman • Oni Followers equal to his Chi. Attach them to one or more of your Personalities. Lose Honor equal to the number of Followers this created.

Ryoshun's GuidanceYour Personalities have +1C while they are not involved in a duel.

Alex Jones (rules official), 23 October 2012

I am sure this has been discussed but I have having a difficult time finding the answer using the Advanced Search

Case 1: Chuda Niiro (3 Chi, 4 Gold Cost) with attached I Give You My Name and Ryoshun's Guidence (+1 Chi). Can I cast IGYMN, sacking Nirro and get a 8 (3 + 1 + 4) Gold cost Oni or is it only 7 (3 +4)?

Case 2: Chuda Niiro, Suiteiru no Oni, and Ryoshun's are in play. Suiteiru uses his ability to eat Niiro. Do I get 3 or 4 followers?

Case 3: Same scenario but now Niiro has an +1 Chi attachment. Do I get 3, 4, or 5?

And if the answer the is lesser for all cases, then does Ring of Fire work the same way or is it because the performer is choosen before the cost is paid and because of this rule

"If any of an action's targeting or performing choices become illegal at any point after the particular choice has occurred, the action still proceeds."

With I Give You My Name and Suiteiru no Oni, the chi of the Personality is checked during the Effects step of the action: if the Personality is in the discard pile they do not get the chi bonus from Ryoshun's Guidance, nor some any attachments.

So, regardless of attachments prior to destruction, Chuda Niiro can get a 7g Oni, but not an 8g Oni. If Suiteiru eats Niiro, he gets 3 followers.

However, in the case of Ring of Fire, the target is picked before the Personality is destroyed, so Niiro with a +1 chi attachment and Ryoshun's Guidance in play can destroy a 5chi Personality with the Ring of Fire.