Oracle of the Void #rules

Question about the Imperial Favor. I thought I remember many years ago in the 90s that the Favor could be used for one of three actions: Send home an attacking unit, draw a card, or re0honor a dishonored personality. Did it ever re-honor or am i remembering wrong?

There was 4 abilities from Clan Wars through the Jade arc.

Note that during those arcs, you couldn't use it to re-honour your bowed Personality.

So it added another small layer of strategy.

They covered a lot of ground in the first Imperial Favors

On Sun and Moon, I built a monk deck using Brotherhood of Shinsei and I have also bought literal cards to play the same deck against literal decks. I know that for certain specific Formats, that stronghold is not allowed, but I'm sure I can still play with the stronghold if it's a friendly game between friends right? It's not like I would bring it to a tournament. Playing with the stronghold, would it not be legal or allowable to put anyone who is a Monk from any clan in the deck? If you pay for them on full, you would get the personal honor from them correct? It is a Monk deck so I wanted the best and most effective personalities who are monks from the different clans. I put monks in the Dynasty from Dragon, five or six from Spider, four or five from Phoenix even though their strong suit is Shugenja, and even a monk from Lion and a Crab. And I've always wanted to play a deck that would make it more possible for me to win on Enlightenment with so many diverse Clans coming together.

In a friendly game, play whatever you like and is agreed on. :) If a brotherhood deck is okay to play, any character with the keyword monk is aligned to your clan, provided it doesn’t have a caveat on the Personality itself. You can Proclaim any of them.

Ahh, alright. I was playing my friend Bob earlier and he said that at least in his view, the monks would have to be unaligned for me to Proclaim them. So I thought to ask on here

At the time, a lot of the monks being played that way were Dragon clan. That was the entire story of the Hitomi vs. Hoshi conflict. You’re correct, it’s designed for pretty much the reason you want to play it.

Nice. yeah some of the best, strongest and most effective Monks are Dragon clan. I knew Hitomi and Hoshi had conflicts of some kind

It’s not unique to monk. Ninja decks don’t care about clan alignment, and neither do Imperial. As long as the keyword is there.

Technically, there’s no Ratling or Naga clan characters, just a bunch of cards with the Ratling and Naga keywords.

Oh, right. Yep I also built an Imperial deck with many different clans, but i have only played it twice so far

True. Out of curiosity, are you from England or the US? 😄

Originally? I was born from the north wind that flows from the mouth of the great white bear, who was born of the eye of the being whose name I am unworthy to speak.

Also, Indiana, US

Oh nice. I was wondering because I thought I read that you wrote "colour" and another word with a U. lol

I have a habit. Many of my friends are from the UK and AUS, and if I’m talking to them for too long I start picking it up. I was born right on the Canada water border with Michigan, so my speech has a lot of that lingering as well. Many ‘aboots’ tumble from my lips.

Had to work for a year to erase the accent so these Indiana heathens would stop mocking me.

alright. Well personally I LOVE the UK or even Aussie accent and always have. Since many peeps I was a coworker with before said I look a lot like Pierce Brosnan, I have tried to talk to them in my British accent.

If you can do it, do it. Accents are fun. Now I’m in the state with almost no accent, just idioms. Nothing cool like Nawlins, Jawsey, Boston, things like that.

Yep. And Indiana is the same state where they will have another Kotei tournament, don't know if you could attend. I've never been to Indiana myself.

Oh yes. I go to GenCon every year, I live in the city so can drive and avoid hotel fees if I want. Sometimes I make a vacation and get a room anyway, though.

If you stay in Indianapolis, it’s fairly balanced. If you leave the cities, it becomes ‘helpful xenophobic red’. You’d get help if you were in trouble, but if there was something about you that was ‘off’, you’d get the long eye or comments.

It’s a pretty decent place, all told.

It is storming like crazy and the cats are freaking out, or I’d be more slumber time. :(

Cool, so you will probably attend in August. Sounds like a nice place. Wish I could attend this year, but it's doubtful i can.

I might play. I’m not familiar with the current status of the game, and other than the cards I’m buying to round collections, I don’t own a lot of them. Or didn’t. I’m trying to get up to speed, but while I e managed to talk my friends into playing again, they don’t have the money to spend, so we’re almost all Clan War era decks. :p

Ok. Well playing friendly games is always fun to do. If you DO go to the tourney, it will be Modern Format play where every single card you have in both decks are Unique so you can only have one. Even action cards. Fifty cards per deck and you can start with the two gold holdings. Also splitting gold, etc.

If I can get my brain required by then, I’ll do my best. :)

If you can do it, hope you have a great time at the tourney.

Kiho no.

Kiho are Kiho. It just happens that some may be cast during Battle.

Correct, Terrains are Strategy cards that are only playable during Battle.

Otherwise a card that retrieved a kiho would have to say ‘return a discarded card from your Fate deck that can only be utilized by a shugenja or monk Personality’, and even that wouldn’t cover all of them.

Not really. They were initially meant as a one-time Spell effect, without having to attach and cast a Spell.

Back in the Day™, that was way more laborious.

Since you could only attach Spells as a Limited action, and you'd assign your dude into Battle carrying the Spell, so they were likely to get sniped immediately.

Oh yes, spells were close to worthless in the early sets.

Battle Spells, yeah. Super hard to do anything with.

Limited Spells were busted.

The Wasting Disease? Touch of Death? Rise from the Ashes?

Bus. Ted.

There was some okay support for Spells, but... enh. Oh, and Secrets on the Wind was also busted.

Plus a lot of Spells didn't have good restrictions. Best example is Touch of Death, where a random 1 Chi Shugenja could attach just one Spell (due to having 1 Chi), and would then be able to Touch a bowed Clan Champion in their naughty spot and kill 'em.

You could have made any strategy say ‘bow a monk or shugenja’

But you needed a keyword to make it easier to understand which didn’t require bowing from certain Personalities, and so forth.

Kiho were meant to be the intersection between the two, where they generated Spell Effects, but as actions and without telegraphing that you've got a Spell Effect coming.

That part is important, since Resist Magic could stop a Kiho.

And other effects would impact them for redirection, etc.

Yeah, true. But like… Takao’s Jinsaga would have a completely ugly block of text with the word ‘kiho’

:p

Enh.

Depends on the arc.

I dunno; one battle with a duel and a terrain in turn three probably drained your hand

I always thought Void incentivized actually playing cards. Keeps people from holding onto high value cards ‘just in case’ and drag the game out.

Mmhmm.

Generally, if you worry about losing/discarding single copies of cards that aren't Unique, you're likely to get hosed.

The generally math around it is that if you run 2x of a card, you're hoping to get one copy during an average game, and if you run 3x of a card, then you're aiming for two copies during a game, sometimes one.

Err. Must be one of the newer printings of Ring of the Void. The OG one is Best Ring of the Void. 😉

Na, you still have to have two or fewer to play it as MRP

Except Rings are one of the few where MRPs don't automatically apply.

So you can play arc-specific Rings, which is basically required to make support cards work properly.

No you don't.

With Sun and Moon you can select the edition/printing of a card.

I do it all the time to play with arc-specific decks/cards/printings.

I figured it was a conversation around the modern legality, but perhaps not

Most formats follow MRP for all cards including Rings. Only formats i know when you may choose version of Ring is Big Deck and EternaL5R.

In Sun and Moon discord theres welcome channel and links. One of those links is for my old SnM video tutorials, including how to display older cards versions.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9qwwEhE0R_yo22yQldKPyOOZ2cWW9In1

They are really old and were made when SnM was still under development so thats why there are versions numbers in titles. As literally new features and fixes were released day by day.

Also theres second way to add specific printing to your deck in sun and moon deckbuilder. If you know where card comes from, you choose specific expansion acronym in 'set' filter and then all cards will be displayed as TITLE (XXX) where XXX is expansions' acronym. If you click it then it will be added to deck as TITLE (XXX). from now SnM will display this specific version during game.

Also everyone may check eg worlds champions decks in my YT channel and see how those visual spoilers look.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9qwwEhE0R_yZKLNGN9Y_VeJDcXqc5BCQ

Just look on decklists.

Yeah. There's a few cards, mostly in Clan Wars sets, that don't work/display properly as the DB is incorrect. But it's >99.5% accurate.

It's actually quite immersive.

You can also change the card backs to the proper OG ones.

I haven't yet found a way to replace the graphic for the Imperial Favour with the Jade arc one yet, without having to do a recompile.

_sighs and whips out The Dark Path of Shadow._

Wait, that one didn't make it to Modern. Hmm.

Oh well, there's like a dozen other busted boxes to pick from.

Well yeah if the cards are TOO old, then they can't bring it to play. I meant the more recent tournament decks that won. Those would make it

Yes, three thousand years ago, MR ANDERSON!

So your advice would be not to be too worried about the cards I discarded, even if I have to discard seven? Just let it ride. It's true, I have many other cards I can put in my hand after that for the game

How often do you go through even half of your Fate deck? (Unless playing control or duelling with a ruleset that focuses from the Fate Deck itself.)

Still the Maneuvers card isn't a bad one to play if you're in a bind and want to use a discarded action card

even during late edition some people (including me) were using so old versions of cards. personally i had imperial and pre-imperial copper mines in my lion decks.

also as every base set contained lot of reprints, people were using older versions during play (but with most recent printing in mind)

Even Imperial Edition had reprints.

Gotta gave the hidden emperor large farms

Totally fits rokugan

Had to look it up. I never knew about this before! https://www.tsunagujapan.com/japans-terraced-rice-fields-will-take-your-breath-away/

It’s the ivory kingdoms I assume

That wouldn’t likely be true in Imperial Edition. But as the article I shared describes, those stepped fields definitely have history in the “source material” of Japan. As for the palm trees, Rokugan’s latitude isn’t much different from the Ivory Kingdoms, so if palm trees show up in one, they could easily show up in the other.

I wanted to see how exactly the winners constructed two of my fav clans that won, Mantis and Phoenix. I constructed them exactly as they were on Sun and Moon, then duplicated them so that I could revamp them and improve them to what I would have preferred. I didn't have to do too much revamping for the Phoenix deck. It was done very well and I only exchanged certain personalities and a few of the spells and action cards and improved it so its' even more effective. I made a LOT of changes to the Mantis deck and had to exchange a lot more. Not sure how that guy won the tourney when he mostly had two or three Force personalities, and many of those didn't have special actions/abilities on them. I think I greatly improved the Fate deck most of all, but even personalities I had to upgrade to make them more effective. The deck was a combination of Reserve, Resilient, Naval, and Ranged attacks, most of which you had to bow to perform. I tried going with those themes and I did improve them. Oh, also Conqueror traits.

I don't see why not.

I'm pretty sure that it's the action card generating the gain, as it wouldn't happen if that card wasn't played.

Maybe wait for @Alex Jones or @Brook Cunningham to provide "official" feedback.

I know the rules from mostly Back in the Day®, which often doesn't apply any more. Nor does logic.

Thank you for the clarification. I'm used to Magic where there aren't as many "If X then Y" effects.

My brain expects a Strategy to have a clause that just says "Gain 2 Honor."

Or like, if you wanted to run First Shout as half your deck for some reason.

No

Deck Construction Ignore the Deck Construction Rules. They are replaced by the following three rules: 1. Both the Dynasty and Fate decks must be exactly 50 cards each! There are some exceptions to this rule: Cards that do not count towards your minimum deck size (e.g. Stone of Remembrance) will result in your Dynasty and/or Fate deck being greater than 50 cards. Cards that increase or decrease your minimum deck size (e.g. Coastal Lane or Hato-gurama) will result in your Dynasty and/or Fate deck being more or less than 50 cards. 2. This is a "Highlander" format! Only 1 copy per card is allowed: Cards with the same title but different Experienced levels (including non-experienced versions) count as different copies for deck construction. Some Personalities count as being the same card for the purpose of deck building limits. Any card whose title and same Experience level (if any) is in another card's "Soul of X" keyword, as well as cards referred to in THAT card's "Soul of X" keyword, and so on. There are some cards that state in their card text that you may run additional copies in your deck (e.g. Shout Of Defiance). Normally, the cardinal rule allows for a card's text to override game rules. In these cases, the Modern Format Rules override the card text, and you are still restricted to running only 1 copy of each card.

^^ its from Modern rules

GenCon tourney is Modern, where cards alre legal since Samurai edition. There's another highlander named BigDeck that covers all cards - but i don't know if there someone will organize something for it at GenCon. Pinebox guys maybe.

There's no great unlimited cards for Modern, but I thought it'd be worth asking. :)

Yeah, it never had that much rigidity, especially with inter-arc fundamental rules changes.

Also in Modern format, you can have one copy of an inexperienced personality, as well as one copy of the Experienced Unique? I think you can....

Ah I just read what Kempy said

Would you really want more than one of that kind of follower? You would continually lose two honor and only get one Force per card. For me, not worth it.

Unless of course you're a Spider clan and you can't lose honor

Oh.

Personality. Follower. Item. Spell.

Since the card has to be in the opposing army, that rules out the others, like Event, Holding, Celestial, Region, Ring.

Ancestor for the "in the opposing army" list.

That's not a card type, those are traits.

ok

i have some lion nonhumans in my deck and was wondering about the card

Yes. "Once per game" Event effect was removed long ago i believe. There's no word about it in 20F CR.

And of course if you put Event into Province same turn as you discarded it, you must still follow "once per turn" restriction because card was still face-up so didn't loose its memory. And also must wait for another turn to resolve traits "at the beginning..."

Thanks.

Is Zenathaar considered to have the Warrior keyword?

In the same vein, are the Half-Naga cards considered to have the Naga Keywords?

Because the Foo Rule is bad.

Didn't need to be isolated, because "Shrine to Benten" was a Shrine by that Rule.

That's in the title though

Although very Foo, yes

So... "Champion of the <Something>" wouldn't have counted as a Champion?

Is there a card that targets for that? All the ones I can think of look for Clan Champion

Destined Enemies specifically says 'a part of any keyword', which would imply that it normally would not count as a Champion

That might be rule clarification, though.

That does appear to be the updated Oracle wording on anything looking for a Champion regardless of what they are the Champion of: Attaches to a Daimyo Personality, or a Personality with "Champion" as part of any of his keywords, ignoring Honor Requirement.

I'm not finding a card targeting a Warrior that isn't looking for a specific type, outside of S:HoD

I was looking for another example and could only think of Elemental Masters, and it looks like any of them that said Phoenix Clan Master of Air are updated to Phoenix Clan • Elemental Master • Air

There are different kinds of Champions other than the Champion for specific clans. Ruby Champions, i think and also Alchemy Champions, and others. That would work for a card like The Emperor Returns right

Emerald Champions

So yes, for the Emperor Returns, it would.

𝐻𝑢𝑧𝑧𝑎ℎ!

That's the cleanest update (the wording on The Emperor Returns, Strong Words, etc). It creates an interesting issue where it makes Fukuzo Exp (Advisor to the Emerald Champion) and others targetable as well. Preserve the context of a card but create a weird dissonance in another. It's pretty smooth and creates minimal potential damage.

Looking over the cards, that makes Passage of Time an interesting threat with Asako Kaitoko. Deal with her Force-limiting abilities, or find a way to target around her, kill her, and every other Phoenix gets a permanent boost. Or, if your opponent isn't playing to the types she requires, just off her yourself for the boost.

In the case of Strong Words, you would have to bow your personality. I don't like using cards with that requirement, unless I have a Serenity in Air in play.

1) For his battle action, do you straighten the personality, and then he can immediately use the ability he has - card says you may straighten a target personality or take additional action. so eg if you target bowed personality it has no sense to use additonal action as it will be probably illegal (unless it's tireless) as he is still bowed. you will be allow to use this action later, after enemy's action. but if you target unbowed guy, it's a solid choice to take this additional battle.

2) KYD - 10.000 Years of Darkness, a special boxed set that about "alternative" history when Fu Leng won. As cards' set, it contained mostly cards illegal in tournament scene (no legality kanjis), but those cards are legal in Open/Legacy formats

3) Kensai as rulebook mechanical keyword that allows to attach two weapons arrived in Celestial. So even if older versions of Yoritomo allow to equip two weapons they arent Kensai and can't be targeted by cards requiring Kensai like Swift Sword Cut or similiar

Only Siege: Clan War version has printed Kensai

Ah ok. So I can continue using KYD Yoritomo in my Legacy decks, which I play all the time.

Both.

That is to say, they'd keep all Clan alignments.

When a Clan alignment is removed, the card/effect specifies it explicitly, like Oath of Fealty.

oh yes

Or a way to bring them in waiving cost, or paying all costs with a single Holding, etc.

There's some creative ways, depending on arc and box.

See, what you do is wait for your opponent to agree to Allies' Gateway on their highest GP holding, then use a Flute of Summoning Dragon to put Togashi Yakuni into play. Then activate Enzo Giovanni, Pentex Board of Directors to intercept Political actions until you can use Chord of Calling, then Thunderbird, Experienced can let you use it over and over again, provided you have enough Ancestors in play. You're playing Ikoma main, right?