Messages from the Oracle of the Void #l5r Discord channel, copied for Oracle of the Void. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings and the rulebooks may differ.
A player, 9 July 2022 23:38
Have never played L5R in any of its forms but am thinking of trying out the original. At the moment I'm sort of going back and forth between Currency of War and Honor and Treachery as starting points, though I think I'm leaning more towards H&T.
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 11:59 · in reply
You have access to those Learn to Play sets only? H&T is from Emperor edition era, TCoW is from Twenty Festivals (Ivory). Both are reasonable, and after playing both you may decide what ruleset to follow. As there was some solid many changes between both (gold system, clan discount, naval, cavalry etc.).
A player, 10 July 2022 19:13
It's not so much a question of only having access to those two sets as it is cost of entry and ease of expanding if I enjoy the LtP set. I suppose I could get both sets, but from everything I've read, H&T and TCoW would mix about as well as oil and water.
I've skimmed pdfs of both rule sets (haven't read them cover to cover) and the basic mechanics seem to be consistent. Seems like the game got a bit of a facelift going into Ivory and also had the overall power level brought down a bit. This could just be me, but the Ivory cards didn't feel as alive as the pre-Ivory ones.
I think Emperor arc will be more conducive to expansion, due to the size of the arc.
I am also (somewhat less seriously) looking at War of Honor and Emperor Edition: Gempukku Starter Display Set (the one with decks for all the clans).
Gempukku Display Set... I located a copy for around $60, so I see it as a semi-budget way to sample all the clans and expand from there.
War of Honor... found an opened but complete set that would cost about $40 with shipping. I see it as a compromise between the LtP and Gempukku as well as maybe being a starting point for someone who doesn't normally do well with CCGs.
I realize I kinda just changed the picture on you, but I'd welcome whatever feedback you have.
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:19
Personally i think that best way to introduce into both editions are starters (Gempukku for Emperor and Twenty Festivals ones for 20F). They are more universal and both add more cards to custiomize. Gempukku starters are peak of L5R starter form with over 200 cards to customise. Twenty Festivals ones have 3 boosters inside.
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:23
Yes, core of mechanic are same for EE and 20F but changes introduced in 20F made some things different. Whole "gold pool" system of Ivory/20F + Equip as Open action increased importance of gold comparing to older editions.
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:24
There even exist different Legacy formats because some people just wanted to stick to pre-Ivory mechanics.
A player, 10 July 2022 19:25
I saw that
A player, 10 July 2022 19:26
The Gempukku starters you're referring to, are those the Clan-specific starter boxes?
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:27
starters were sold separately in the past, there were also such display boxes with all 9 ones
A player, 10 July 2022 19:27
Ok. So you and I were talking about the same thing
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:28
yes, starters are separate for every clan
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:28
just 9 clan starters for emperor and same for twenty festivals
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:28
ltp boxes are fixed with specific clan vs clan clash
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:29
and eg if you don't like mantis or crane there's no other ltp option for you in 20f
A player, 10 July 2022 19:30
Got it
A player, 10 July 2022 19:30
I don't yet have a favorite clan
A player, 10 July 2022 19:30
So that's not an issue
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:31
i think that currency of war was created to introduce dueling and naval
A player, 10 July 2022 19:31
Aside from cost my main issue will be finding an opponent
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:31
first ltp of ivory (a matter of honor) was dumb force counting
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:31
as many cards there dont have any abilities
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:31
as overall first part of ivory block was just super weak ;/
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:32
in second part (twenty festivals) they made a much better cards
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:33
and as overall twenty festivals arc (cards legal since base ivory till evil portents or blackest storm if you proxy) is much better experience than ivory arc (cards since bridge ee/ivory expansions until aftermath)
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:34 · in reply
it's a problem for many "dead" games
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:35
you just need to risk and just put your cads on the table with "let's play" and hope they catch the hook
saaam (not official), 10 July 2022 19:38
There's some arguments to be made about going with older arcs if you want to introduce new players and just have quick pick-up games, because the card interactions are (usually) simpler the further back you go. The game state tends to be what you see, and will change predictably, other than what's in the other's hand.
saaam (not official), 10 July 2022 19:39
At least, I found the more OG arcs to be easier to teach when it's mil v mil or honour v mil. Cover some core mechanics, cover battles, and off you go. Vs needing a reference for various keywords and so on.
saaam (not official), 10 July 2022 19:39
YMMV.
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:41
but there's this aesthethics valour of first arcs - they look super vintage and not everyone would like to accept it. i wouldn't go further than Samurai edition - that was also "power level reset" edition and it's rather remembered as good arc for many.
saaam (not official), 10 July 2022 19:54
That's a very good point, too. You can either draw in or repel people with the old card fronts.
A player, 10 July 2022 19:55
I doubt that anyone I (attempt to) play/teach in the immediate future would know or care about these details
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:56
[attachment: unknown.png]
kempy_nezumi (not official), 10 July 2022 19:56
[attachment: unknown.png]
A player, 10 July 2022 19:57
Obviously if you line them up even a new player will notice
A player, 10 July 2022 19:58
But if you just hand the other person a deck and say "Here you go. Now let's learn to play..." he/she probably won't know what the other version(s) look like
kempy_nezumi (not official), 17 July 2022 09:49
was this revered sensei released officially and legal?
[attachment: unknown.png]
kempy_nezumi (not official), 17 July 2022 09:50
asking because in the end of edition they released this
[attachment: unknown.png]
Alex Jones (rules official), 17 July 2022 09:51
I've never seen it.
Alex Jones (rules official), 17 July 2022 09:51
The former, I mean.
Alex Jones (rules official), 17 July 2022 09:53
I joined the Rules Team in 2008, iirc.
A player, 17 July 2022 13:11
Question regarding The Coming Storm
Why do none of the personalities in the four packs I opened have a clan mentioned in their info area? All of them have a clan icon on the card but not one has a clan listed in the keyword area. What gives?
Alex Jones (rules official), 17 July 2022 13:12
Design change, with Ivory.
Alex Jones (rules official), 17 July 2022 13:15
Although I guess it was done during the Ivory Arc, not actually with Ivory Edition itself.
kempy_nezumi (not official), 17 July 2022 16:17
[attachment: unknown.png]
A player, 17 July 2022 16:47
Kinda weird, but ok
saaam (not official), 17 July 2022 17:01
A lot got changed for Ivory, and not necessarily for the better.
Alex Jones (rules official), 17 July 2022 17:01
Yeah
Alex Jones (rules official), 17 July 2022 17:02
That one was just a change, though, I think - not really better or worse.
saaam (not official), 17 July 2022 17:02
Just slightly confusing.
Alex Jones (rules official), 17 July 2022 17:03
Arguably, it was simpler for new players.
A player, 17 July 2022 17:19
Also, I'm working my way through Honor and Treachery (like it overall), but find that its explanation of the attack/battle phase could be a bit clearer.
1) The Turn Sequence card indicates that the attack phase is optional. Does this just mean that it's optional to declare attackers (and/or defenders)? Or is there some way of conducting a battle without characters/personalities that I missed?
2) When declaring an attack, does the chosen battlefield need to be faceup or facedown?
3) I want to confirm that a ranged attack can only affect a single Follower attached to a Personality or a single Personality with no followers. I put a couple examples below just to double check.
Bayushi Kasumi is being followed by Veteran Skirmishers, while Isawa Taiken is being followed by Clearing Crew and Devoted Yojimbo and has cast Scouring Flood (+2F) and One Shout (+4F).
Ex 1: Taiken could Cleanse the Path vs Kasumi's unit, but the damage would have to resolve on the Vet Skirmishers, even though Kasumi's force (5) is within the threshold of the attack. Correct?
Ex 2: Kasumi can use a Ranged 5 vs Taiken's unit. However, she can obviously do nothing to hurt Taiken even if the rules allowed. Even though she has enough damage to destroy the Crew and Yojimbo, she can only hit one. Correct?
4) When Spells say they last until the turn ends, this means they stay in play until combat resolution, correct? As opposed to most spells that are use-and-destroy?
I found the narrated battle a little hard to follow while trying to playing my own game against myself...
saaam (not official), 17 July 2022 17:22
1. There's a whole phase for combat. You can skip declaring it, so there's no possibility of any fights happening anywhere. Basically you go from your Action Phase to Dynasty.
saaam (not official), 17 July 2022 17:30
2. I don't understand the question, because I'm not sure what battlefield means here. In the OG game, you'd declare an attack, assign your infantry armies to the defender's various provinces as you saw fit, then they defend, then you send your cavalry, etc. A battlefield would be created for each province as you'd go through the steps and fight a battle.
saaam (not official), 17 July 2022 17:30
3. That depends on the ranged attack. Since ones with nothing special, yeah.
saaam (not official), 17 July 2022 17:31
Can't really comment on the specific examples since that'll involve looking up a whole bunch of cards and the arc rules.
saaam (not official), 17 July 2022 17:31
4. That depends on the wording. Usually it's a spell's effect/change that can last until the end of the turn, such as Force of Will.
saaam (not official), 17 July 2022 17:32
Whether the spell is destroyed or not doesn't matter, what matters is the effect it generates.
A player, 17 July 2022 18:27
2) Should have said province.
"Create battlefields associated with each of the Defender's provinces. Battlefields are imaginary locations in a battle, with two sides - one attacking and one defending."
A player, 17 July 2022 18:29
3) The book's wording on Ranged Attacks is:
"Ranged X Attack", where X is the Ranged Attack's strength, is shorthand for "Target a Follower or a Personality without Followers in the current enemy army."
saaam (not official), 17 July 2022 18:34
Generally, yeah, you have to kill off the Followers one by one. Exceptions are when it says it can hit a Personality with attached Followers, or when the RA targets everything, e.g. Asako Hosigeru.
A player, 17 July 2022 18:44
I gather that AoE type RAs are the exception in the larger game
Alex Jones (rules official), 17 July 2022 19:34
When you declare an attack, a battlefield is created at each of the defender's provinces. The attacker and defender - and any allies, if you're playing multi-player - can assign none, some or many units to any or all of those battlefields as they see fit.
Alex Jones (rules official), 17 July 2022 19:34
Then you resolve the battles, with the Attacker deciding the order.