Messages from the Onyx Lives #rules-questions Discord channel, copied for Oracle of the Void. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings and the rulebooks may differ.
Most questions can be answered by looking at the Twenty Festival Comprehensive Rules! (https://drive.google.com/file/d/14s8mPKKKM6Wduffhp1GXsTaRF7SILc7W/view)
The Onyx Rules Datasheet in the Mediafire downloads folder describes our new mechanics and any changes to existing mechanics.
@Jeff Williamson Both links go to the CR? Was one supposed to go to Onyx Rules? Also, if Onyx Rules doesn't have Courtesy, it should; recently discovered we accidentally left it off the CR... not that like 95% of printed Courtesy cards don't have the Rule as Reminder Text. But still! 😛
Adding a link to discord creates a preview link, that’s why there’s two
The mediafire folder is referenced but is linked in one of the pinned messages in (link)
So in a game I was playing recently, we found that the interaction between these two cards created an infinite fear buff. We were thinking that an easy way to stop this would be the levied refugees lose courage when faced up (added to the honesty part)
Is Courage repeatable? If yes, then I see the infinite buff, if not, then you can't use the sensei's "banish for Courage" on the same turn that you discarded Levied Refugees from your hand
Since, as I understand it, once-per-turn abilities only "reset" if the card becomes "facedown" (in this case, back I'm your hand)
(That, or my distracted brain is thinking of a different card game)
Normally yes. But rulebook wise, it functions as a stackable effect. Unlike the Honor keyword which only triggers once per honor gain.
Checked, Courage has Repeatable
Therefore I can only assume that it's working as designed, since both were part of the Remastered rework (think even showcased in the facebook post). Makes it great against towers, or defending against opponent Fears, but you can still only Courage one Fear at a time
As is that one combo can fear bomb anything. However I don't know if having an infinite combo is good.
@Brook Cunningham @kempy_nezumi @Jeremy Sumerlin any thoughts on the above combo?
sweats in waiting for you to realize [hida kisada] trait 💦
So, in your game, did you fear 100, x5 times to win the battle/ game?
I know about kisada and how he interacts with this. All I'm asking is, is this interaction intended? Cuz the easy block is chump followers.
not intentional to be infinite, no
the likely fix is going to be: "this card may only be used for the rulebook Courage ability once per action"
which fits with the intent of a reusable resource but avoids the Fear Wheel
Thanks. It's still a good card combination though. It is kinda fun to watch... the first time. Lol
glad to see that I'm wrong
Hi, I was the crab player in this game. As fun as it was, it felt wrong. Glad it’s getting fixed. Thanks.
Just a humble suggestion, maybe limit usage to twice per action? That makes it similar to other courage follower usage out of masatari sensei.
I'd like to apologise for this misinformation and any cofusion it may have added, I just remembered it was from a rules clarification on a card in the LCG, don't think the same rules apply in the CCG
The CCG has the same rules about card memory; it must be both facedown and out-of-play, then it will "forget" anything about itself (ongoing effects, uses of abilities, etc).
In that case, it wouldn't be able to be limited to twice per action as a fix since it would reset, right? It would have to be once per action as doc said it likely will be?
But it goes into the hand face-up by its own text.
Ah, nevermind then, twice per round would be doable then
I probably shouldn't be speculating about rules after midnight
Each interrupt is a separate instance of the action though. Just make the Banish to card in hand be 2pt or something
My speculation is that the intent was to have a consistent resource for fear effects. Not unlimited combo loop. I'm glad we are doing this online where the changes can be done relatively quickly. And we don't have to memorize errata rulings.
Hi 🙂 ! A question (about Bracing Ground) : is the printed force of a personnality 3F with an item +2F equal to 3 or to 5 ?
Printed force is literally what's printed on the card, and that alone
In this case, 3F
Also, assume you meant "Cursed Ground"? But Bblade is correct.
Thanks ! ( @Brook Cunningham Bracing Ground, RoJ, n°123)
Oooh. I forgot about non-Oracle cards, duh. 😛
Lol
I'm just on my phone. Not paying attention to what channel I'm in. I see Rules, I do Rules. 😛
Lol
Another question : is a token (for example Ichiro Yojimbo's 1F follower) a fate card ? (for the Ring of the Void)
(or Kitsune Toson's result of his recruit response)
I'd assume created tokens are not fate cards, because fate cards would be cards from the fate deck, and token cards are not from the fate deck
Fate cards in Onyx have 4 types. Follower, item, spell, Strategy. If it matches one of those 4 types, it counts as a fate card in play, is how I'd rule it
Same with pearl strategies for naga
they are fate cards, but they can never enter decks
the definition of them as "tokens" was removed in favor of "created cards"
"tokens" are markers that refer to state changes or tracking, like -1F tokens or Arrow tokens
"created cards" refer to cards of a game-specific type that are created and put into play by an action or effect
Toson and other Kitsune created creatures would be Dynasty created cards, not Fate
That's interesting
Agreed that created cards are Fate or Dynasty cards as appropriate, because the 20F rulebook definitions of Dynasty cards and Fate cards does so by referring to their types.
Values on created cards that aren't defined by the process that created them are zero, but I don't see any reason why that would extent to make a created Personality, for example, not count as a Dynasty card even if it was not explicitly described as such.
In particular, this is why Kamoko's Avatar is explicity defined as a Strategy (originally Action) card that creates a Personality rather than being a Personality that enters play from your hand.
Thanks all ! So, is a follower created by an action on a holding a fate card (because it's a follower) or a dynasty card (because it was created by a dynasty card) ?
Followers are Fate cards.
Thanks !
Another other question, about Honesty : is the card revealed face-up with the Honesty battle action stays face-up at the end of the turn ?
it remains face-up until an effect turns it face-down
What happens if 2 Oblivious Scout are attached to my single personality at a battlefield ?
Hi, this is under discussion. 🙂
And, one last question about Akodo Eirasu : "without further cost" means we don't have to pay 4G + 8G, but only 4G, right ?
Correct
I think the first 2 legal actions have to target the followers.
It's like having to battle action magnets.
I would rule it that way, too, but reading the card text by itself, you wouldn't be able to target one until you've targeted the other, and you wouldn't be able to target the other until you've targeted one, meaning it's a looping action/targeting denial
I feel like this was already determined previously, because this is functionally similar to having multiple resolved Ruthless Onslaughts (or two Metsubushi where the opponent passed their action between their resolutions).
I don't remember what that determination was, mind you...
In fact, it appears to be answered in the 20F rules