Rules for 23 June 2004

You Rules for Wednesday, June 23, 2004

shono

I have a shugenja and shinjo shono xp2 out. My oponent targets the shug with iajutsu challange. i turn of fortune it onto shono. how does this interact with his trait.

You target with Iaijutsu Challenge well before it actually issue a challenge to Shono. When it comes time to produce that effect, you need to pay the 2-card cost Shono imposes on challenging him.

I just have a question regarding Senpet Scimitar. I was reading through the accumulated rulings and it stated that:

Senpet Scimitar Gives +5F if attached during battle. [ML, 24 May 2004]

But does this mean only if it is attached as a battle action, or does it mean simply that it gets this bonus no matter what, so long as the personality is opposed and is currently in a battle?

You'll only increase the +4 bonus the Scimitar gives to its Personality if you start getting the bonus "while opposing." So, yes, you'll have to attach it or move it during the battle to get the extra +1.

Ashihei + Iweko + I Challenge + Leaving Play

I just wanted to interject that the change in the Illegal Targets Ruling makes much of what went on in this thread inaccurate.

In short:

Iweko gets a chance to challenge before Ashihei cancels Iaijutsu Challenge since she Reacts to refusal, while Ashihei cancels for dishonoring, which happens later.

Iaijutsu Challenge will still try to dishonor Ashihei, even if he dies. That means it will still get canceled, even if Iweko kills him in her duel.

More SoGF

Comments Below:

--- In, Martin Lund <kaioto@y...> Your Rules for Sunday, June 20, 2004

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The controller of any Personality is, by default, the player who last brought that Personality into play under his or her control - not the owner.

Where in the rulebook does it say that? I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'd like to be able to show my playgroup the rulebook section so that they understand why this ruling works.

[MARTY] "The player who brings a card into play controls it unless an effect or rule specifies otherwise." (Diamond Edition Rulebook, Page 55, "Bringing Cards into Play")

Also, Show of Good Faith also says, "You may not declare an attack or move cards or tokens to or from that Personality while he or she is under your control."

Since that pesky "while" is in there, does that mean that a Feign Death will also end that effect as well?

[MARTY] Feign ends nothing. Leaving play ends that effect, because the card is not controlled by anyone when it gets in the Discard Pile.

"Cards in decks, in (not attached to) Provinces, in discard piles, and in hands are not “in play,” do not affect play, have no controller, and cannot normally be targeted or affected by other cards." (Diamond Edition Rulebook, Page 55, "Bringing Cards into Play")

Rules questions

Hi Marty and Jeff,

some assorted rules questions before the German Kotei on Saturday:

Is focusing a card always creating a stat bonus, even if the focus value of the card is 0? There is a slight contradiction between page 32 and page 89; I'd like to know which one takes precedence here.

A Bonus is a Bonus, even if it is a +0 bonus.

Reducing a Bonus to 0 does not make it cease to be a bonus, nor does focusing a 0 FV not count as a bonus - since the rules for Focusing specifically define it as a bonus.

L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 12, Issue 91 (Ikoma Sume)

Comments Below:

Example

Province A. Attacking Lion With Personality A, Personality B and Personality C as well as Sume destroy the province. Sume wants to use his reactions. If yes or no, please explain the timing of it.

[MARTY] It goes like this:

A.) Destroy the province and opposing army (if any).

B.) Send attacking units home bowed (including Sume).

C.) Destroy any terrain for the battle.

D.) "Players may now take Reactions to the resolution or end of the battle."

This process is outlined on pages 84 and 85 of the Diamond Edition Rulebook.

Once you get to step D, you'd be ready to use Sume's ability, since it says, "After a battle resolves ..."

However, your Sume that attacked is in all likelihood very bowed and very unable to use his printed Reaction unless you've dropped some effect like that of Spearhead.

Personality A and Personality B have Omoidasu attached, when does the Omoidasu get used exactly.

[MARTY] Omoidasu's ability get played immediately after "A" in the above timeline. The Province (and possibly army) gets destroyed, and you play Omoidasu after the army it is in, "destroys a Province or opposing army."

Example.

Province A. Attacking Lion With Personality A, Personality B and Personality C Sume is in another battle attacking Province B.. Sume wants to use his reactions. If yes or no, please explain the timing of it.

[MARTY] This plays out exactly like the first example above, only your Sume wasn't in the attacking army, so he wasn't sent home bowed. Sume's own card text says he doesn't need to be at the battle he's Reacting to - so he can work out of another Battle or your Home.

How does this change if Sume's battle at Province B has already resolved?

[MARTY] Well, being an Attacker, I'd assume that if the battle Sume attacked in has already resolved, he's be back in your Home, correct? Most likely bowed.

Also, if you throw deadly grounds into the mix, what happens?

[MARTY] "Prevents the playing of all non-terrain-destroying actions within the Battle Action Segment and Resolution Segments [Card text], including Reactions played "when" or "after" a card is destroyed. Does not prevent Reactions played "after resolution" or "after the Attack Phase." [Partial Reversal, DW, email, 6/2/97]" (Accumulated Rulings, "Deadly Ground")

So Deadly Ground would stop Omoidasu since it is under the "Battle Resolution Segment," but not Ikoma Sume since he does his job "after resolution," which is outside the Resolution Segment. (Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 85)

Sume

Comments Below:

Yes so, if I have no reaction, the battle is ended. If I have some reaction, I make my reaction (and my opponent too), and then the battle end. So the battle resolve, have I a reaction ? yes : Sume. I do it, and then, it is the end of the battle.

[MARTY] You see, Sume's Reaction isn't played until "after" the Battle has resolved, and the rulebook specifically says the following:

"The battle has now resolved. All surviving attacking and allied units (including defending allies) return to their controllers' homes, bowed. The Defender's units to not bow; they remain in their Provinces until the Attack Phase ends.

If this is the very last battle of the Attack Phase, any attacking and allied units that moved into other Provinces and are still there go home bowed now as well.

After the Battle

The battle has now resolved, or perhaps a card's effect ended it without resolution. Either way, destroy any Terrain still in play for the battle (even indestructible Terrains). Players may now take Reactions to the resolution or end of battle."

If not for that last sentence ("Players may now take Reactions to the resolution or end of battle") I'd say you could use Sume before attacking and allied units go home bowed. However, that last sentence can't be ignored. It forces you to wait until attackers and allies have gone home and Terrains have been destroyed before you can use Sume's ability.

It isn't a balance issue or anything - I just can't ignore that sentence.

(Ruling needed please) Shinden Horiuchi allows casting spells while bowed?

Greetings and salutations.

I have been informed (by a generally reliable source), that Shinden Horiuchi allows a Shugenja to cast a spell while they are bowed, by bowing an item.

You were misinformed. Bowed Shugenja may not cast Spells. (Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 54)

Daigotsu question

Daigotsu's battle action:

"Discard the Imperial favor to reduce the force of one opposing card to 0."

Do weapons also go to zero if the personality they were attached to was targeted by this action?

You won't reduce the Weapon's Force unless you target the weapon with Daigotsu. However, when Daigotsu lowers a Personality's force, that makes a penalty. It will get a large enough penalty to counter-act any pre-existing bonuses to that Personality.

For example:

Matsu Aoiko is attack and has a No-Dachi attached. She's 1 F + 2 from the No-Dachi, +2 from her trait, for a total of 5F. Daigotsu hits her, giving her a -5F penalty to reduce her Force to 0.

OK, that should be everything for Wednesday, June 23. If I missed your question please repost it with a clear, distinct subject line containing the flag [RULES] in the subject line.

Thanks folks,