rules for 9-10 March 2004

Seppuku

I have a question about Seppuku:

Q: Is Seppuku a card effect?

Only if it comes from a card. The form of seppuku inherently available to Samurai and Courtiers is not.

I suppose Seppuku should be in "causes of destruction that are not card effects", but for the moment is not included in any of the possibilities.

That's because it isn't always one or the other.

Rules Question (JEFF)

Hi Jeff,

It's been a while since I debated with you on card wordings so I thought I'd keep in practice. You ruled that if a player plays Escape from Shadow on one of their Events and re-fills the province with an Event that the new Event does not resolve. However Escape from Shadow specifies that it is played "after an event is revealed but before it resolves". By my understanding of the timing rules this means that, once the effects of Escape from Shadow finish resolving, we return to the segment of the turn just before we would resolve revealed Events. Why wouldn't we then proceed to resolve the Event that is now in the province?

No, because it is not the one that was revealed. That was the one Event that gets to resolve in that Province this turn. Its resolution was prevented.

You will note that the new Event is also not immediately discarded.

Northern Provinces of the Moto

I had a quick rules question, and couldn't find it quickly on L5R-CCG Archive.

With Northern Provinces of the Moto, if two units are switched (since it's considered movement) and the movement of one of the units out of their battle is negated with a use of the Right Hand, where do both units end up, in their original locations or in the same battle?

In their original locations. [Archive, in the Battles section] If one movement is prevented, the units can't "switch", and if they can't switch, neither one moves.

New Rat Question (Jeff or Zen)

On the new rat featured inside the cover of the Herald. Its ability states that it gives a bonus when bowed equal to the number of followers in the discard pile. My question is does a follower token count?

Irrelevant. Tokens can't go into the discard pile. Any token -- even one that also counts as a card -- that leaves play in any way is removed from the game entirely. [DE p. 71]

Rules Question (JEFF)

An item that came up on the Crab forum (and apparently at the Illinois championship): When a battle ends in a tie are both armies considered to have "lost" the battle?

No.

rules for 8 March 2004

Regions of Rokugan:

May I choose to get a region, a copy of which is already in play on my side, and fail to put that region in play?

Yes.

It is known in advance that the attachment will fail. Why does it not fall under the following ruling from the archives?:

Because you're not being told to play a Region. You're being told to search your deck for a Region, then attach it to one of your Provinces that doesn't have one.

Hiring personalities:

What is the definition of "hire a personality"? Is it "Pay gold and other costs during the Dynasty phase to bring the personality from one of your provinces into play"?

"Hire" is not a game term in L5R. I don't see it in any Gold- or Diamond-legal card or anywhere in the current rulebook. What is the context?

The word "hire" is used in multiple places in the rulings archive, and the specific context that my question arose from is this:

"Honor can only gained for hiring Personalities during the Dynasty Phase. [The Spirit Wars rulebook]"

This would properly be a question for Zen, since he maintains the archive. It seems to me it's a synonym for "buy".

rules for 8 March 2004

Any card that says 'Search your deck':

May I voluntarily fail to find something that I am instructed to search for?

No. But generally, you may voluntarily find something you cannot play. --

But looking for and failing to find because there aren't any is still legit, yes?

Yes.

If this is the case, do we need to reveal our decks to the opponent (or 3rd party), for verification?

Not typically.

What if it is already known that there is nothing findable (e.g., you tried using the exact same search action last turn)? What if it is Public Knowledge that there is nothing findable (e.g. You are searching the discard pile)?

It doesn't matter in either case.

Rules question for CoTW

Can someone use a Tsuruchi Technique to boost the ranged attack that reduces a provinces strength?

Sure, provided the attack is coming from one of your units.

More on Kaagi/Iweko

Ok here is the situation:

A personality Iaijutsu Challenges Hiruma Ashihei Ashihei refuses the challenge

Now is the challenge cancelled before Kitsuki Iweko can use his reaction or will he have an opportunity to use it?

Clearly, the refusal itself needs to occur before the effects of refusing do, since the one causes the other. Iweko reacts to the refusal. Ashihei's trait responds to the effects of refusing. Iweko goes first.

rules for 8 March 2004

The search is optional. You "may" do it. [card text] However, if you go searching, you must retrieve a Region from your deck if there are any, then discard it if you can't play it. You cannot look through your deck and then decide not to take a Region.

What if you go searching and there is no Region to retrieve?

I was careful to answer this the first time. :) "you must retrieve a Region from your deck IF THERE ARE ANY".

This could be an honest mistake or intentional, but is there a penalty for this?

No.

Rings and Fall on Your Knees

Dear all,

From my understanding:

Elemental Rings are played as Reactions to their specified condition.

They have timing similar to Reactions, but they are not Reactions and are not actions.

If you satisfy the condition yet fail to play a Ring immediately as you do so, you can not play it later in the turn unless its trigger reoccurs (for example, you can't Walk the Way for Ring of Air and play it if Walking the Way is your 3rd spell on the turn, but if you later cast another spell/kiho, you can play the Ring then).

You still have to play it as soon as it becomes legal, not later.

As Rings are played as Reactions, Fall on Your Knees could be used to counter the playing of an Elemental Ring during the Battle Action phase.

They're not, so it couldn't.

ishi...rules question

If I make Hida ishi the emerald champion and target satsu to be able to bow him, can he?

No. The bowing effect comes from the Personality that has been given the action "Open: Bow to bow an Emerald Champion."

Agasha Chieh Implications

Just trying to understand the implications/uses of Agasha Chieh's ability, which reads:

"Phoenix Clan Shugenja . Magistrate Chieh is also considered a member of every family that has members in your Faction."

Does anyone use her ability? And if so, what for?

It's fairly minor, as there are few cards in the Diamond environment that care about family name.

how do you win the game without honnor or enlightment?

I have yet to figure out how the victory (i cant remember what it is called) works, I'm almost done reading the book but still cant figure it out! Please explane it to me.

You win a Military Victory by being the only player remaining after all others have been eliminated. Players are eliminated if all of their Provinces are destroyed or if their Family Honor ever reaches -20 or lower.

More Rules

One of my players asked me to get official rulings on these:

I'm playing City of Remembrance. If I use Iuchi Najato to give cavalry to cards while he is bowed, and then don't bow him because of the stronghold, do they get cavalry until the end of turn, or not at all because he didn't remain bowed?

They get it and instantly lose it.

Also, the rulebook says that you ignore play restrictions when you experice a personality, does this include "Will only join X Clan"?

Yes.

mean, if I wanted to play 3 Basic Chagatai in my Crab deck, could I experience him?

Yes.

Card questions

Got a couple of questions regarding timing of certain cards.

Personality 1 Iaijutsu Challenges Personality 2. Personality 2 refuses challenge. Owner of personality 2 wishes to have him commit seppuku, but owner of personality 1 has a Dirty Politics he wishes to play.

Who is considered the active player?

I think what you mean is, "who gets to react first?"

(The "active player" is shorthand for "the player whose turn it is", which is not nearly as important in determining who reacts first as most people think.)

Basically, reaction timing works like this:

1. If the Reactions are to two different things, the Reaction to the thing that happens first goes first. (This isn't really a separate rule. It's a natural result of Reactions needing to be used as soon as possible.)

2. If the Reactions are to the same thing but are worded with different timings -- "before" versus "after", for example -- the one with the earlier wording goes first.

3. If the Reactions are to the same thing and have the same timing, the first chance to React goes to the player to the left of the one who caused the "thing" to happen. If the trigger is something that happens automatically, first reaction goes to the player to the left of the active player.

Seppuku is not a Reaction, but its timing works like one. In the case of Iaijutsu Challenge, seppuku is done in response to deciding to refuse the challenge. [DE p. 88] Dirty Politics is played in response to an Honor loss or gain. [card text] Since deciding to refuse the challenge happens first, seppuku combes before Dirty Politics.

Personality 1 Iaijutsu Challenges Personality 2. Owner of personality 2 plays Dismissed as a reaction. Owner of Personality 1 has a Keen Eye he wishes to play.

Can the owner of personalitity 1 play his Keen Eye in response to Dismissed?

Yes. Dismissed must wait for the challenge to be issued to be legal. If a challenge has been issued, Keen Eye is also legal.

rules question.

Crane vs. Phoenix Strange Assembly is in effect.

Phoenix Player hits 40. Crane players turn. He hits 40. Phoenix player tributes. Crane ends his turn on "48", but because of tribute its really 6. Phoenix players turn, who wins? a) Phoenix cus its the start of his turn and he's got 40? b) Crane because he's 8 above the honor win and thats an auto win?

Effects that last "until" a given time end before effects that happen "at" that time. Tribute wears off first. Crane wins.