Post for June 16, 2003

General questions about Oracle of Fire

1. Can you look at the Card before you focus it, or is it like Ryokan's Sword where you just take it from the fate deck and place it as a focus? (Sorry.. the only one I have is the Imperial edition, where it says "Draw a card from your Fate Deck and use this as an additional focus". Don't know if it's been reworded)

l5rsearch.com, baby!

The Gold edition card reads as:

Elemental Reaction: Before a duel begins, if your Personality can Focus, bow the Oracle of Fire and pay 1 gold to play your Fate deck's top card as an extra Focus card.

So, no. When you use the Oracle, you have to Focus the card not knowing what it is.

2. I'm going against someone in an Iaijutsu Art. Can I react with the oracle of fire, plus get my single focus for the art? (Effectively focusing 2 cards)

Nope. Because the Oracle's Reaction counts as a Focus, it counts as the one Focus that you're allowed for the Iaijutsu Art.

Where I'm not sure how it works, is here. If you _start_ such an (action/non-action), do you have to have a (reaction, presumably) available somewhere to make you able to pay the cost, or can you "fake-attempt" something? And if somebody plays a (reaction/non-action) that suddenly makes you unable to use your intended action, are you still forced to use any other (reaction/non-action) that would let you meet the cost?

The sequence of purchase in L5R runs like this:

1) Announce the card or effect you're trying to play. 2) Announce targets. 3) Pay costs. 4) Resolve effects of card or effect.

Once you've announced a card play, you must attempt to pay all costs. If you announce a play and then you cannot (or choose not to) perform step three, then the card play is illegal. In a friendly game, you can probably just keep playing, but in a tournament, it's something that, if done repeatedly, could get you disqualified. Bottom line, announcing card plays without following through on them is cheating.

The rules for being unable to pay the cost of a card play only become relevant if a player uses an effect to alter your purchase.

Here are examples of what I'm thinking of:

(1) I have an unbowed Utaku Palaces, a Corrupt Mine, and Ide Sadanobu. Moto Zhijiang (12G) is in one of my Provinces.

Can I start paying for Zhijiang with my Stronghold, add in the Corrupt Mine, and decline to use Sabanobu to get to 10G?

Only if you have 3g available from somewhere else. Once you've announced that you're bringing out Zhijiang, you must pay the cost.

[If this is legal... in a multiplayer, can I start playing for a Follower, show it to everybody, and decline to pay for it, taking it back to my hand?]

Not legally.

(2) Same situation, except I have _two_ Sadanobus. I start paying for Zhijiang by bowing the Corrupt Mine, to which my opponent reacts by playing a Corruption's Price, killing one of my Sadanobus. Do I have to bow the other one (and my Stronghold), or can I decline, keeping Zhijiang in a Province?

Payments are made simultaneously, not sequentially. When you hit step 3 in the above flowchart, you have to generate 10g (or 8g if you're buying Zhijiang at reduced cost) all at once. Your opponent can play Corruption's Price, but it won't affect your current purchase.

(3) Similar situation, but now the gold-paying card is one in my Fate hand - like Tax Collection, or One Koku, or whatever. Does this make any difference?

Well, as above, you're obligated to play such a card if you have it. If you hit step 3, and you're unable to pay the cost of a card you're trying to purchase, that's an illegal play. If you have a gold producing Fate card, you *have* to play it.

Or else. ;)

So, in Gold is there any other way to win besides an Enlightenment, Honor, or Military victory?

I don't know how easy it would be but causing you opponent's honour to go below -19 seems to work.

When your opponent drops below -19, he is eliminated from the game, and you win a Military victory. There is no such thing as a "dishonor" win condition - it's just another aspect of the Military victory. Spread the word, kids.

Aha! Now this, you can't do. You *can* play a Sneak Attack, and then you can use the Scout's trait to play a terrain, but you *cannot* squeeze a Show of Strength in between those two.

Ah Vaughn Jeff has already contradicted this.

Jeff has ruled - Sneak "Insert Action" Scout "Insert Terrain" is a legal play order. And the reverse order is likewise legal.

I agree. It's perfectly legal to combine Sneak Attack and Scout in any order. Public service announcement in 3...2...1...

Kids, always be sure to check the most recent wordings of cards when you're trying to figure out how they work. I know that there are a lot of you out there with older cards, and they've all got such spiffy art. It's hard not to want to play with them. But sometimes, you just need to make sure that the words on the card are up to date.

This is why, for those of you playing out there, you should always try to make sure that you have an accurately worded version of a card on hand (if one is available). For those of you thinking about answering rules questions, you should check the wording of cards you're answering questions about. Even ones that you're sure you know how they work. Like Sneak Attack.

if a player targets my hochiu with an art, and i take the reaction to focus upon entering the duel, can i strike immediately? or does the other player have to focus?

If you use Hochiu's Reaction after being challenged to an Iaijutsu Art, not only *can* you strike immediately, you *must*. Same thing with the Oracle of Fire up there. When you're in an Iaijutsu Art, you can only Focus once. If you use an effect that allows you to Focus upon entering the duel, like the Oracle or Hochiu, you are forbidden from Focusing a second time, so you have to strike. This only applies to effects that specifically talk about Focusing, not things like Togashi Yoshi.

Hi there,

I have recently encountered such problem. Let's say i have a personality in a battle, who has Fan of Command (or Menhari-Gata), which gives that personality Tactician trait. I use it, and then somehow move that item to another personality (either using Iuchi Yue's ability, or the one from Shiro Shinjo). Another personality gets that item, and receives Tactician trait. Can i use it?

The Tactician trait? On the new personality? Sure. The personality who now has the Item has just gotten the Tactician trait, and has not used it this turn. It's the same as if you had played Moment of Brilliance on him/her.

Can destroy the shugenja who has the spell attached (and who bows for using it) when paying the costs to put an oni into play ?

(Talking about I Give You my Name)

Depends on the text of the specific Oni. For the most frequently used IGYMN Oni with relevant text, Tsuburu, yes.

Not to sound harsh Vaughn, but IGYMN asks for one of your personalities to be destroyed as part of the casting (I don't have it handy so I can't check if it's an effect or a cost of the casting, but anyway, it's part of the casting) and Jeff ruled that as you choose targets before paying costs, you targeted the shuggenja with IGYMN for destruction before you bow the personality to pay for the cost of the spell. It has also been ruled by Jeff that IGYMN only ignores gold costs, any other costs and comming into play effects still happen, so you have to sac 2 presonalities to IGYMN a tsuburu, sac a holding if able to Kyoso, looose the honor asociated with any oni you bring into play...

I think there must be some confusion somewhere, so let's cover this thing from the top down.

Phoenix player Ian is about to cast I Give You my Name. Assume he's got tons of personalities in play, and they're all unbowed. When he announces that he's casting the Spell, he has to target one of his unbowed personalities who will be 'eaten' by the Spell. This can be the personality who is about to cast the Spell. Once he's paid all costs (bowing the caster, destroying one of his human personalities), he starts resolving the effects. When the Oni he has chosen enters play, he ignores its gold cost and play restrictions, but must still pay all non-gold costs and resolve any entering play effects from the Oni. If he chooses to bring in Tsuburu no Oni, he can choose to destroy the caster as payment for Tsuburu's non-gold cost (as long as he didn't already destroy him for the cost of the Spell).

Clearer?

Can the bonuses from a celestial sword be negated by wholeness of self?

Everything except the printed +1 Chi, yes.

Sorry Vaughn, but I think you should reread wholeness of self. it negates all force and chi bonuses and penalties from cards OUTSIDE THE UNIT. The sword's bonus has been rulled to be a bonus the sword gives to itself, and it's in the unit eviddently...

Agreed. Wholeness of Self cannot eliminate any of the bonus from a Celestial Sword.

Okay, you are at a sealed tourney. You open your deck and boosters, and lo and behold, one of your cards is a stronghold. Can you use that stronghold if you sould prefer too?

Sure. You can do this regardless of the starter you pulled, too. It's probably not the greatest choice, because the starters are designed to work with a Stronghold of the same Clan, but there's no reason you couldn't choose to jump Clans if you pull a different Stronghold in a booster.

Bowing does not affect Follower bonuses with a "+" sign, Item bonuses of any kind, or Chi.

So if I gave a Jade Bow a bonus with Tsi Smith, and bowed it for a ranged attack, it would still contribute force to the personality?

Sure, but the Personality is now bowed, so you'd have to find some way to straighten him to have his force count for the battle.

The rules for determining whether or not a card contributes force during the resolution of a battle are as follows:

A bowed Follower does not add its Force to the unit.

No cards add to the Force of a unit when the unit's Personality is bowed. The unit's total Force is 0.

Bowing does not affect Follower bonuses with a "+" sign, Item bonuses of any kind, or Chi.

The only one of those three rules that Chuichi/Spider Tattoo could be contradicting is the second one. While bowed, Units led by Chuichi and Spider Tattooed personalities do not have a total force of 0 - the Force of their unit is calculated normally.

Vaughn, why would followers in such a unit add to the force of the unit if the personality is bowed? Chuichi and the Spider Tattoo say nothing about his followers adding to the force of the unit if he is bowed, only that the personality adds force while bowed. The second rule up there only gets broken for the personality, not everything in the unit.

Once it gets broken for the Personality, the unbowed Followers in the unit (who have still been trying to add their Force the whole time) now have something to add their Force to. I think the wording on Spider Tat/Chuichi is expansive enough to allow Followers to count normally.

Unless breaking the rule for one card in the unit does the same thing for the rest of the unit. In which case I need to use the Elite Infantries more often.

Chuichi and Spider Tat have text that's much more expansive than the text on the Elite Infantry cards. I think it's extremely non-intuitive to say that, even though the Followers are unbowed, and Chuichi has text letting his Force add to his unit's total force, the Followers aren't allowed to add.

If I move the Cove of Cursed blade into the current battle, are all the opposing units already in the battle affected by the Cove of Cursed Blades' effect ?

No. Cove targets attacking Units that assign to a province, or move into that province. If a bunch of Units assign to a province, and then you move Cove in, it's too late for those Units to be affected by the Cove. It would, however, affect Units moved in after you move the Cove to its new province.