post for 4 June 2002

Rules question.

Matsu Domotai

(relevant text) Domotai's Force cannot exceed his Chi.

Charge

(relevant text) Give an attacking Lion Clan Personality +3F.

So, let's say Domotai is at his base 1f/3c. When I Charge him, does the Charge itself get modified to give him 2f, or does the Charge give 3f, and Domotai shakes off the extra point? And, more importantly, when is that decided?

Rulebook, p. 31, any Gold or later edition: "If a value has any minimum or maximum values, apply that limit last, after adding all current bonuses and penalties together."

The Charge gives him +3F, always. Then you check his total Force against his total Chi and adjust his Force if it's higher.

This is a lead-in to the real question of "What happens when I Strength of Purity Domotai?"

Does Domotai get +3f/+3c, or does he only get +2f/+3c, because at the time SoP resolves, his chi is 3, and he can't get more than a 2f bonus?

He gets +3/+3 and becomes a 4/6, which is allowed because his Force of 4 is not over his maximum allowable Force, which is now 6.

And if he does get +3f/+3c from SoP, going back to the first question of Charging Domotai, will he regain the "lost" point of Force from the charge if I raise his Chi sometime later in the turn?

Yes.

Rule of Obvious Legality. ????

Ok guys, lets try to figure out which cards are effected by the Rule of Obvious Legality.

Here's a big hint: start with Mushin.

My first submission would be Cultist can cast Kihos as Mahos..what do you guys think?

I think they can't. The Cultist's "Shugenja" trait is much less useful under Gold Edition rules, true, but the card is not useless or unplayable. Compare it to "Battle: Take two actions. This card never satisfies the Rule of Relevance, and is therefore always illegal to play." (a.k.a. Mushin), "Battle: Move this unit into the current battle. You may only use this action if this card is in the current battle." (the Shadow-Walker Exp.), or "Battle: Straighten this card. You can't take this action if this card is bowed because bowed cards can't act." (Matsu Hataki Exp.)

Okay, the Hataki example was borderline. The Dark Allies rulebook DOES have a specific rule allowing a bowed card to act to straighten itself, on page 24. But that's a very recent addition. Prior to DA, Hataki and actions like his have been technically illegal, save for the Rule of Obvious Legality, for half a dozen years. Yet when is the last time you heard of a problem with them?

post for 3 June 2002

Bowing is an effect, not a cost, of refusing Kosho's challenge. If his challenge is refused, A Test of Courage may be played to cancel his challenge action and keep the challenged Personality in the battle. This is a REVERSAL.

Ok, but just to clarify, if it is cancelled by ATOC, can't it just be performed again at the Kosho player's next chance for an action? (cancelled actions are considered to have never happened, thus his once per battle restriction wouldn't be in effect yet...)

Yes, for the reason you state.

post for 3 June 2002

In a message dated 6/3/02 11:51:19 PM Central Daylight Time, writes:

<< >3) Can I Winds Truth the 4 honor loss from Poisoned Weapon to a SLH player?

Same answer.

Careful, Jeff. An honorable faction *can* Wind's Truth a the honor loss from Poisoned Weapon to a Shadowlands player. The honor loss then pops, and cannot be redirected further, but it's a valid way of ridding yourself the honor loss.

Woops! I misread the question and thought he was trying to steal the loss FROM the Shadowlands player. My bad. Yes, it's legal to redirect that (or most any other) loss to a SL player, and it will promptly disappear.

post for 3 June 2002

1) If the SLH player uses For the Empire and wins the duel, can I winds truth away the 3 honor gain?

Assuming they had the Samurai and they challenged a Shadowlands Personality (because otherwise there is no honor gain to begin with), no. The gain anyone else would get does not exist for them, not even for a moment.

2) Against the SLH with Suspicions in play and Dojo Nagori, can I increase the honor loss with Nagori and gain the 1 honor for doing so?

There is no loss for them, so there is nothing for Nagori to react to.

Jeff, I don't mean to be rude, but doesn't this answer directly contradict what you're saying in part 1 above? In the above answer, you're saying that he CAN Wind's Truth the honor gain from a Shadowlands player's For The Empire, provided the SL player made the challenge with a samurai.

Read what I said again. Assuming the Shadowlands player is the one who controlled the Samurai, and he challenged someone else's Shadowlands Personality with that Samurai (and you have to assume that because For the Empire only produces Honor when the challenge is done in that direction, so challenging the other way makes the whole question moot), the gain that any other player would get does not exist for the Shadowlands player.

With the questions raised on Rain of Emeralds, I have one just to clarify my thinking (not sure that will ever happen....)

Event in question: Tsukune Ascends Remove your Personality with the highest Force from the game. You choose in the case of a tie. All your other Personalities permanently gain +1 Force, +1 Chi, and +1 Personal Honor. 'Arise, Tsukune, Fortune of Rebirth. Take your place among the Celestial Heavens.'

Questions: 1. Since, unlike Rain of Emeralds, Tsukune Ascends doesn't say in play, does it affect the personalities in your Deck/Discard or when they come into play later that game?

No. "Your" = "controlled by you", and only cards in play have controllers. [DA glossary, p. 77]

As you have stated above, this would appear to contradict earlier rulings on Bayushi Yojiro and Kirin's Shrine (Experienced). Bayushi Yojiro states "Each Scorpion Clan Personality you control gains..." and Kirin's Shrine states "...your human Personalities gain +1F/+1C and your Dragon...." In both cases, the rulings have been that personalities entering play gain the +1 personal honor after entering play, but before honor for bringing them in is gained.Perhaps it would be clearer to state that since, unless otherwise stated, the effect of Events only lasts until the end of the current turn, and that is why Tsukune Ascends only affects personalities currently in play.

But that's NOT the reason why Tsukune Ascends only affects Personalities currently in play. The reason is that it's worded to happen once, instantaneously, applying only to what meets its criteria at that time, while Yojiro and the Ki-Rin's Shrine are continuously applying.

Rules question.

Yeah, but that's not my question, though. :) I want to know what happens when you JUST SoP Domotai, nothing else. Does he gain 2f/3c or 3f/3c?

3/3.

Double Chi and Shinsei's Staff

How does Shinsei's Staff work against Double Chi, does it reduce the focus value to 3 after it has been doubled or before? I just subscribed to this list (hello everybody!) and don't know if this has been answered before, I couldn't find it from the rulings at least.

As of Gold Edition, the Double Chi trait makes you add each Focus value twice instead of once during duel resolution, rather than doubling the actual value. There is no timing conflict with things like Shinsei's Staff that way. The Staff reduces it to 3, then that 3 is added twice.