Rules for December 11th

Vaughn Derderian, sent 11 December 2000 to the l5r-useful list, L5RINFO

A rules digest from the L5R CCG rules team, copied from the mailing list archive for Oracle of the Void. The askers' names are left out. Rulings are as they stood on this date; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

More fun with questions...

1) Would the Winter Warfare no send home ruling also apply to also apply to Feign Death? A person dies, is Feigned, and thus would have to return to the battle because technically they can't leave it? (Ditto for Sight of Death) Or does pretending to die buy you a sleigh ride through the snow :) ?

Both Feign Death and Sight of Death return the personality to play after they've died, so they've already left the battle, though they haven't quite *moved*. A Feigned/Sighted personality still comes back in your fief.

2) I'm a bit confused as to what Yuki no Onna's controller can ignore during Winter Warfare. Does this mean that if I have Yuki no Onna in play I can ignore the fact that my opponent cannot be sent home and send them home anyway, or does it only refer to things affecting my cards? Or does it only refer to the terrain portion?

You can ignore both the moving part and the terrain part. Your actions can move people into and out of battle, and you can play terrains.

3) Is switching considered one effect or two effects (ie. one unit moving in and one moving out)? In other words, if I have Tangen outside a battle, and someone else in a battle against Oni no Ugulu, can I activate Tangen's switching action to move my personality back to my fief?

Tentatively, yes. It seems like only one half of the switching action should be prevented, but on the other hand, switching is definitely one effect, not two. If it's only one effect, then it can't be broken down into composite parts, and either the whole effect should go off, or none of it should.

4) Currently the rulebook states that "Any terrain in play is automatically destroyed immediately after the Resolution Segment". Shouldn't it read "Any terrain in play is automatically destroyed at the end of the battle" to prevent terrains being permanent if the battle does not resolve? (Perhaps this is for the editorial staff?)

Probably.

Actions that are listed on strongholds, to they overwrite ANY action/effect, even if they don't specificaly state so on their stronghold?

No. Actions, even those on Strongholds, only trump what they say they trump. Strongholds have no special exemptions just by virtue of being Strongholds, other than the general rule that things that only affect card effects don't hit Strongholds.

Example: Ninja Stronghold - As a battle action, send home attacking army if it has less than 10 chi. This action can still occurr if the stronghold is bowed.

What if I walk in with a Sneak Attack and Dead Ground/Night Battle. Or play Secret Entrance. Since the stronghold cannot destroy the terrains, and the player won't have a means to destroy it, does the fact the action is on the stronghold, negate the "lock" and allow him to take the action to send me home? Also, on Secret Entrance, if he has no defenders, and SE comes into play as my reaction, since he can't use actions that he normally could use if no defenders (imperial favor), then he doesn't get the stronghold affect now, right?

From the Archive:

The Dark Path of Shadow

Ability is usable if prohibited by a card effect (e.g., Deadly Ground, The Secret Entrance) or with no units in the battle. [5 May 1999] Ability is not usable if you do not have a chance to perform Open/Battle actions (e.g., Crushing Attack). Ability can be cancelled (e.g., Storms of War).

Essentialy, I think you're missing something about the Dark Path. The reason that the action can be used under Deadly etc. is because it says it can (you may take this action in a battle where you cannot take actions). That phrase isn't 'written' on all Strongholds, but it's definitely part of the Dark Path's ability, and it extends to all situations where the DPoS player is prevented from taking actions by card effects, in addition to situations where he's prevented from taking them normally because he doesn't have a guy there.

Basically, when is something considered usable without defenders? And when do "locks" to prevent the opponent from taking actions considered not a valid lock, even though the cards state otherwise?

That's a very situational question. Depending on the 'key' card that dodges the 'lock', the answer is different. The Dark Path of Shadow dodges anything that would prevent you from taking actions, but not things that would impose additional costs on those actions, or things that end the battle action phase prematurely. Other cards work differently. If you'd like answers for those, go ahead and ask. I can't answer questions you haven't asked yet, though. ;)

Test of Courage/Winter Warfare

Respectfully, I must disagree. Your personality has been "targetted by an action that would remove them from this battle". Winter Warfare states that they may not be "moved into or out of battles with actions". The current ruling on winter warfare says that you may still TARGET a personality with an action that WOULD normally send them home, despite the fact that it cannot send them home thanks to WW. The targetting is all that the Test of Courage looks for, it doesn't care if the action is about to have its effects negated.

Agreed. Test of Courage still works under Winter Warfare.

2.) Can a person play Counterattack, Rallying Cry, then another Counterattack against an attacker in the same turn? Yes.<< I assume you mean, yes, if the other player counterattacks back? I don't think it'd be legal for Player A to attack me, have me Counterattack him, Rally, and Counterattack him again. Counterattack requires that I be the one being attacked. I'm beginning to think this needs to be in the FAQ...

It's *in* the FAQ. Been there for at least three months, probably longer. I thought it had been there for years (I knew about it in 1997, when I started playing), but I checked and it wasn't there in a Sept 1998 copy of the FAQ that's still gathering dust on my hard drive.

It's in the Archive, not the FAQ. And, in the form that you copied from the Archive, it is explained, but not in the detail that many people require it to be. It is a very difficult concept for a lot of people to grasp, and even then lots of people disagree with some of the basic concepts. The Archive explains it in one sentence, and yet to fully explain the interaction of Rallying Cry and Counterattack, I'd have to use a page or two. The Archive can't (and shouldn't) do that, but the FAQ should.

Essentialy, I've only been working on this for a few months, and I've already had to answer that question two or three times. The answer needs to be written down somewhere, and explained fully. That's the FAQ's job.

So, with Stars Scatter, any in place modifications only change the strength of the original Ranged Attack, not all the consecutive ones that follow. This would include things like Higher Ground, as well.

Hmm. Vaughn, does not the active controller get to decide which order to apply his card effects in?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Traits always apply before actions, so you cannot do this:

So with 3 Barbicans under Kaiu Sensei you could Double, Double, Stars Scatter and double again.

The answer you were looking for is a card effect only applies once from a particular copy of that card.

So once a particular Barbican doubles the original ranged attack no matter what other effects may occur to it that Barbican's doubling effect cannot apply again.

The counterargument to that is that, once Stars Scatter has been played, the new RA's are not the same RA as the original one. They are all completely new Ranged Attacks, and should get all existing bonuses again. For balance's sake, though, I think that the whole thing, Stars Scatter and all, should just be counted once when assessing bonuses.

Pretty much, yes. By the way, has anyone else ever noticed that you technically shouldn't be able to use Dark Oracle of Water if no Cavalry have been assigned? Not that I'm going to change its effect or anything, just a quirky note. Interaction of Monsoon Season and DOoW?

Wow. Apparently, even with a liberal reading of the Oracle, you can't use it during Monsoon Season. If there's no Cavalry Maneuvers Segment, then you can't bow the Oracle after it to assign units.

If I am defending, and someone Tactical Maneuvers, and I have an unbowed DOoW, can I bow it to assign unassigned units?

Sure.

the SW rulebook says: An action targets something if it uses the term "target" or if any player sometimes has to choose what it affects

Does this mean that yogo asamis ability can't be used by a player with yodin in play.

No. Asami is fine under Yodin, because she targets a player, and then that player targets a personality. The Yodin player only targets the player, not the personality.

also, does this mean that the 12th black scroll and mountains of the phoenix are out for a yodin player?

Also no, because the affected player is the one doing the actual targeting. Actions that force another player to target one of their personalities are legal for a Yodin Sensei player.

also....if kitsu osen is egged, can you use his reaction to kill another personality?

No. The Egg doesn't trigger entering play effects.

When personalities are moved in to a battle which has already been resolved (i.e. luring tactics), how do to attackers return home?

There's a ruling in the FAQ saying that all attackers moved into a resolved battle will bow during the resolution of the last battle for the phase. That's an old ruling, though, and I can't find the original source. For some reason, it also hasn't made it into the rulebook or the Archive, and there's a ruling in the Archive that appears to directly contradict it. For right now, I'll stick with the FAQ, and say that they bow during the last resolution segment of the attack phase.