Honesty of the phoenix Vrs Indecision

L5R CCG Rules board, 19 June 2012 to 21 June 2012

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 19 June 2012

Indecision Reaction: After an action resolves, if its player has resolved two or more actions which put cards into his hand this phase: He discards two cards

Honesty of the Phoenix Battle/Open: Choose your performing unbowed Phoenix Clan Personality: Name a card. After the next resolution this turn of your action from another Strategy or Ring with that title, draw a card, and choose a player, who discards a card.

if i was to use Honesty several times nameing Ring of Void, then discarded or bowed the ring, am i right in thinking that my opponent can not play indecision as the timeing trigger has already passed?

Alex Jones (rules official), 20 June 2012

Indecision Reaction: After an action resolves, if its player has resolved two or more actions which put cards into his hand this phase: He discards two cards

Honesty of the Phoenix Battle/Open: Choose your performing unbowed Phoenix Clan Personality: Name a card. After the next resolution this turn of your action from another Strategy or Ring with that title, draw a card, and choose a player, who discards a card.

if i was to use Honesty several times nameing Ring of Void, then discarded or bowed the ring, am i right in thinking that my opponent can not play indecision as the timeing trigger has already passed?

After the resolution of Ring of the Void's action, your apply the delayed effects from the Honesty of the Phoenix, and draw cards. Then, players make take Reactions "After an action resolves", such as Indecision. By this point, you have "resolved two or more actions which put cards into [your] hand this phase", so Indecision's condition is met and as well as its trigger having occurred, so Indecision may be played, and you discard two cards.

See the Timing Sequence.

A player, 20 June 2012

With regards to http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=98582

In this scenario, wouldn't the Phoenix player have only played 1 action which put cards into his hand? The action "which" put cards in his hand was ring of the void's action, but he drew two cards "from" ring of the void and honesty of the phoenix. Thank you for the clarification.

Alex Jones (rules official), 21 June 2012

With regards to http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=98582

In this scenario, wouldn't the Phoenix player have only played 1 action which put cards into his hand? The action "which" put cards in his hand was ring of the void's action, but he drew two cards "from" ring of the void and honesty of the phoenix. Thank you for the clarification.

I'm counting at least two actions that have put cards into your opponent's hand: Ring of the Void and each copy of Honesty of the Phoenix.

The card draw from Honesty of the Phoenix happens after Ring of the Void resolves, but it's from Honesty, since that's where the card draw effect is printed.