Bayushi Jou vs. Shadowlands Horde, Shosuro Tsuyoshi

L5R CCG Rules board, 22 March 2012

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 22 March 2012

a) if I play Bayushi Jou's reaction against a Shadowlands Horde or Dark Path of Shadow player, can they elect to "lose 2 honor" only to have their stronghold/"faction" negate the loss, or are the effects of the action reacted to with Jou negated unconditionally?

b) Shosuro Tsuyoshi's text is a bit confusing. RA3 compared against Chi... does this kill any and all followers, who have a Chi of 0 (even those like Kenku Duelist, who have a Chi *modifier*)? Also, I presume the normal restrictions on a RA still apply (i.e., effectively Shosuro Tsuyoshi must be in a battle at the current battlefield to satisfy legality as well as relevance)?

Jou -> Political Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets Jou: The player may choose to lose 2 Honor. If he did not choose this, negate the action's (remaining) effects.

Tsuyoshi -> Reaction: After an action taken by another player targets Tsuyoshi: Ranged 3 Attack that is compared against the target's Chi.

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 22 March 2012

a) if I play Bayushi Jou's reaction against a Shadowlands Horde or Dark Path of Shadow player, can they elect to "lose 2 honor" only to have their stronghold/"faction" negate the loss, or are the effects of the action reacted to with Jou negated unconditionally?

b) Shosuro Tsuyoshi's text is a bit confusing. RA3 compared against Chi... does this kill any and all followers, who have a Chi of 0 (even those like Kenku Duelist, who have a Chi *modifier*)? Also, I presume the normal restrictions on a RA still apply (i.e., effectively Shosuro Tsuyoshi must be in a battle at the current battlefield to satisfy legality as well as relevance)?

Jou -> Political Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets Jou: The player may choose to lose 2 Honor. If he did not choose this, negate the action's (remaining) effects.

Tsuyoshi -> Reaction: After an action taken by another player targets Tsuyoshi: Ranged 3 Attack that is compared against the target's Chi.

a) Yes, a Ninja or Shadowlands Horde player can "choose" the Honor loss, snicker as his Stronghold makes it never happen, then since Jou's conditional effect is based upon what he chose (not what actually happened), she doesn't negate anything.

b) First, Tsuyoshi's Ranged Attack will indeed kill most Followers, because when checking a non-existant stat, it is considered 0. However, when checking a stat on an attachment that gives a stat bonus, the value of the bonus is considered to be the value of the stat. So a "+4C" Follower, if one existed, would survive.

And while normal targeting restrictions of Ranged Attacks apply, you are mostly incorrect about what those restrictions ARE, in relation to Tsuyoshi. Ranged Attacks may only target "a Follower or a Personality without Followers in the current enemy army" (see here). However, Reactions are not restricted by the Rules of Presence and Location (there is no more Rule of Relevance), so there is no requirement for Tsuyoshi to be at the current battlefield when he performs the Ranged Attack.