A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
Hey guys, this is my question:
After the opposing player reacts to one of my honor gains with Rhetoric, can I react to this playing Rhetoric to re-redirect the honor gain to me?
Rhetoric Political Reaction: Before a player gains or loses Honor from an action's effects, bow your performing Courtier: Choose another player. If the Courtier's Chi is higher than or equal to the Honor gain or loss, the chosen player instead of the original player takes the gain or loss.
Tyvm.
Hey guys, this is my question:
After the opposing player reacts to one of my honor gains with Rhetoric, can I react to this playing Rhetoric to re-redirect the honor gain to me?
Rhetoric Political Reaction: Before a player gains or loses Honor from an action's effects, bow your performing Courtier: Choose another player. If the Courtier's Chi is higher than or equal to the Honor gain or loss, the chosen player instead of the original player takes the gain or loss.
Tyvm.
Yes. The resolution of the opposing player's Rhetoric creates new honor gain timing windows, and you may use your own Rhetoric to react to his pending gain.
According to the question on Rhetoric, Rhetoric creates a new timing window for another Rhetoric. I am quite confused about a couple of things namely:
1. Is Rhetoric an Honor Gain/Loss action per se? Are you gaining/losing honor because of Rhetoric itself?
2. Rhetoric's clause " the chosen player instead of the original player takes the gain or loss" suggests that Rhetoric only modifies who receives the honor gain/loss. Is this right?
3. Does Rhetoric create a separate honor gain/loss instance? When a player gains/loses honor, does Rhetoric negate that player's honor gain/loss and grants another player via Rhetoric a similar gain/loss?
4. Is the original player who gained/lost honor still considered to have gained/lost honor after Rhetoric is played?
Finally, would you be kind enough to provide a step-by-step sequence of how a player can Rhetoric another Rhetoric?
Thank you in advance.
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Rhetoric Political Reaction: Before a player gains or loses Honor from an action's effects, bow your performing Courtier: Choose another player. If the Courtier's Chi is higher than or equal to the Honor gain or loss, the chosen player instead of the original player takes the gain or loss.
Sort of related to: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=96689
Lets say I cause a 3 point honor loss to my opponent. She plays Rhetoric on the honor loss. Can I then react with Unimpeachable Name to reduce the honor loss to me?
I had originally thought the answer to this question was no, because of the timing sequence, but the above thread opened up the possibility (in my mind at least) that it MIGHT work.
[EDIT]: Same question, but substitute Shiro Chugo's honor loss reduction reaction for Unimpeachable Name?
Sort of related to: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=96689
Lets say I cause a 3 point honor loss to my opponent. She plays Rhetoric on the honor loss. Can I then react with Unimpeachable Name to reduce the honor loss to me?
I had originally thought the answer to this question was no, because of the timing sequence, but the above thread opened up the possibility (in my mind at least) that it MIGHT work.
[EDIT]: Same question, but substitute Shiro Chugo's honor loss reduction reaction for Unimpeachable Name?
Rhetoric does not create a new gain or loss. However, it does close the trigger of when Player A is gaining (or losing) honor, and sets up a new trigger of when Player B is gaining (or losing) honor, which can then be reacted to as normal. The honor gain or loss is still from the same source, there is simply a different player gaining or losing it.
1. No. Rhetoric modifies the gain/loss, it is not the source.
2. Yes.
3. No. See #1.
4. No. The original player will not have gained or lost honor if the recipient was changed via Rhetoric.
Regarding the second post, no, you may not Unimpeachable Name if your action was the original cause of the honor loss. Rhetoric is not causing the loss in this case, the original action is still the source.