Your Clan Needs You + Halls of the Forgotten

If the Berserker player is the active player, brings in a berserker with Your Clan Needs You!, and the personality is destroyed but you use Halls of the Forgotten to delay his destruction, what exactly happens? Does he: A. Return to the province and stay there, indestructible and manly, as cards out of play cannot be destroyed? or B. Return to the province, then get destroyed in an unmanly manner, entering the discard pile as a destroyed personality? or C. Alternative conclusion I have not foreseen? In such case, I will prepare my death poem, having failed in my capacity as an honorable daimyo.

Relevant Kolat Edition Text:

Halls of the Forgotten Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.

Your Clan Needs You! Battle: If any enemy units are at the current battlefield, choose your performing Personality in one of your provinces: Bring him into play at the current battlefield, paying all costs but paying 6 less Gold. After the battle ends, if he is in play, discard all his attachments and put him face up into one of your provinces, face-up, discarding any card there.

Both effects are delayed until "after the battle ends," so the active player will decide which occurs first.

Note that, according to Effects in and out of play: Effects that were activated on a card in play, and then delayed, also apply to the card at the delayed point in time, even if it is no longer in play.

Thus, if the active player chooses to apply the delayed effect from "Your Clan Needs You!" first, the Berserker is returned to the province. Then, the effects delayed by Halls of the Forgotten are applied because they were activated when the Berserker was in play: the Berserker in the province is destroyed.

If the active player chooses to apply the delayed destruction effect first, the Berserker is destroyed. Then, the delayed effect from "Your Clan Needs You!" fails to trigger, because its own text requires the Personality to be in play at the time when it would trigger.

Hi,

Following this : A personality can be destroyed while in province. viewtopic.php?f=59&t=96545&p=1275384#p1275384

What happens next ? Does the destroyed personality stay in the province ? I think yes but if not, does the personality become "dead" or "discarded" in the discard pile?

Regards, Rémi.

The definitions of Destroy and Dead have been changed slightly, removing the clause "in play".

The Glossary entry for Destroy now reads: 1. When a card is destroyed, it enters its appropriate discard pile, or leaves the game if it was a created card. While it remains in the discard pile, it is dead if it is a Personality. See, etc.

Areas of the Game, Discard Piles now reads: The Dead: Special rules cover Personality cards in the discard pile. A Personality who is destroyed is in the dead state while he remains in the discard pile; the card is turned 90° in the pile, or otherwise set apart from other discarded cards there. This is not bowing.

Thus, a Personality who is destroyed while in the discard pile will become dead, and a Personality who is in a province will go to the discard pile in the dead state; a Personality who is not in the discard pile is never dead. Note that the Personality must have been in play when the effect "Destroy him" was originally activated, as described previously.

Hi,

Following : viewtopic.php?f=59&t=96545&p=1276694#p1276694

I use Seiden Sanzo on one of my personalities. Later that turn, it is targeted by another action and I react with Suitengu's Surge. As my personality was in play when I used Seiden Sanzo on him, I assume that "Note that the Personality must have been in play when the effect "Destroy him" was originally activated, as described previously." is respected. My next dynasty phase starts. My personality is out of play. => Could you please confirm that my personality (and every of his attachements) have to go to my discard pile and have to become "dead"? My turn ends. => Could you please confirm that my personality come back into play ? If yes, what is "Its owner returns it to the game in that state" refering to? Does a card that have gone to discard pile remember its past state ?

Card text : Suitengu's Surge : Reaction: After an action targets a unit you control, bow this Shugenja and target the unit: Remove it from the game, preserving bowed status and all attachments and tokens on its cards. Its owner returns it to the game in that state after the next turn begins, in his home under his control, without considering it to be entering play.

Seiden Sanzo : Limited: Target a Personality you own and control: Give him Cavalry and +3F. Destroy him after your next Dynasty Phase begins.

Thanks in advance.

Regards, Rémi.

Suitengu's Surge removes the unit from the game. This is significantly different from merely being out of play - per the rules on Outside the Game, the delayed effect from Seiden Sanzo will not have any effect on the Personality.