A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 22 February 2012
There've been some conflicting answers floating around in my local playgroup about a handful of cards interact. There are some peripheral/related rulings that touch on the subject but it's gotten to the point where we'd like some specific rulings. I know my questions are a little nitpicky, but there's just been a lot of confusion to sort out around here.
1. If one of my Holdings has been targeted by Scars of War, under which of these conditions would the honor loss 'count' for the purposes of cards like Rugashi Bazaar or Beautiful Host?
A) I bowed the Holding myself and Scars of War was originally played within the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host B) My opponent used a card to bow the Holding after Scars of War was originally played within the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host C) I bowed the Holding myself during the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host but Scars of War was played outside of those constraints D) My opponent used a card to bow the Holding during the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host but Scars of War was played outside of those constraints
2. If one of my Holdings has been targeted by Yasuki Tsujiken's Reaction, under which of these conditions would the honor loss 'count' for the purposes of cards like Rugashi Bazaar or Beautiful Host?
A) I bowed the Holding myself and Yasuki Tsujiken's Reaction was originally triggered within the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host B) My opponent used a card to bow the Holding after Yasuki Tsujiken's Reaction was originally triggered within the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host C) I bowed the Holding myself during the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host but Yasuki Tsujiken's Reaction was triggered outside of those constraints D) My opponent used a card to bow the Holding during the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host but Yasuki Tsujiken's Reaction was triggered outside of those constraints
3. I'm aware that nothing should fundamentally change other than in what order the effects happen, but is there any reason why the honor losses that 'count' above shouldn't also 'count' for the purposes of No Time for Games? (For instance, could I play No Time for Games and then deliberately trigger an honor loss from Scars of War or Tsujiken and get the Revenge tokens?)
Relevant Card texts: Rugashi Bazaar Holding 4 GC This card will not be destroyed. Bow this card: Produce 3 Gold. Revenge Battle/Open: If you have lost honor from another player's action during the Action Phase since your last turn ended, choose one to four of your performing Personalities: Give each of them a Force bonus equal to his base Personal Honor.
Beautiful Host Holding 2 GC Retainer Bow this card: Produce 2 Gold. Political Open: If another player's action has caused you an Honor loss this turn, choose your performing Personality: Give him a +1F Revenge token.
No Time for Games Strategy 0 GC Political Reaction: After an attacking player announces a Battle action before the Defender's first normal opportunity to act or pass: Negate its effects. Open: Choose your performing dishonorable Personality: Rehonor him. After the next time (this turn) you lose Honor from another player's card effect, give him three +1F Revenge tokens.
Scars of War Strategy 2 GC Political Limited: Bow your performing Courtier and target a Holding: Until the game ends, after each time it bows or an ability on it resolves, its controller loses 1 Honor.
Yasuki Tsujiiken Personality 3 Force, 4 Chi 10 GC, 0 PH Crab Clan • Courtier • Crime Boss • Merchant Reaction: After Tsujiken enters play, target a Holding: Until Tsujiken leaves play, after each time its controller bows it, he loses 1 Honor. Open: Bow Tsujiken and target a Holding: Straighten it. You may bow it if its base Gold Cost is 4 or lower.
Ben Higgins (rules official), 23 February 2012
There've been some conflicting answers floating around in my local playgroup about a handful of cards interact. There are some peripheral/related rulings that touch on the subject but it's gotten to the point where we'd like some specific rulings. I know my questions are a little nitpicky, but there's just been a lot of confusion to sort out around here.
1. If one of my Holdings has been targeted by Scars of War, under which of these conditions would the honor loss 'count' for the purposes of cards like Rugashi Bazaar or Beautiful Host?
A) I bowed the Holding myself and Scars of War was originally played within the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host B) My opponent used a card to bow the Holding after Scars of War was originally played within the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host C) I bowed the Holding myself during the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host but Scars of War was played outside of those constraints D) My opponent used a card to bow the Holding during the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host but Scars of War was played outside of those constraints
2. If one of my Holdings has been targeted by Yasuki Tsujiken's Reaction, under which of these conditions would the honor loss 'count' for the purposes of cards like Rugashi Bazaar or Beautiful Host?
A) I bowed the Holding myself and Yasuki Tsujiken's Reaction was originally triggered within the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host B) My opponent used a card to bow the Holding after Yasuki Tsujiken's Reaction was originally triggered within the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host C) I bowed the Holding myself during the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host but Yasuki Tsujiken's Reaction was triggered outside of those constraints D) My opponent used a card to bow the Holding during the time constraints listed on Rugashi Bazaar/Beautiful Host but Yasuki Tsujiken's Reaction was triggered outside of those constraints
3. I'm aware that nothing should fundamentally change other than in what order the effects happen, but is there any reason why the honor losses that 'count' above shouldn't also 'count' for the purposes of No Time for Games? (For instance, could I play No Time for Games and then deliberately trigger an honor loss from Scars of War or Tsujiken and get the Revenge tokens?)
Relevant Card texts: Rugashi Bazaar Holding 4 GC This card will not be destroyed. Bow this card: Produce 3 Gold. Revenge Battle/Open: If you have lost honor from another player's action during the Action Phase since your last turn ended, choose one to four of your performing Personalities: Give each of them a Force bonus equal to his base Personal Honor.
Beautiful Host Holding 2 GC Retainer Bow this card: Produce 2 Gold. Political Open: If another player's action has caused you an Honor loss this turn, choose your performing Personality: Give him a +1F Revenge token.
No Time for Games Strategy 0 GC Political Reaction: After an attacking player announces a Battle action before the Defender's first normal opportunity to act or pass: Negate its effects. Open: Choose your performing dishonorable Personality: Rehonor him. After the next time (this turn) you lose Honor from another player's card effect, give him three +1F Revenge tokens.
Scars of War Strategy 2 GC Political Limited: Bow your performing Courtier and target a Holding: Until the game ends, after each time it bows or an ability on it resolves, its controller loses 1 Honor.
Yasuki Tsujiiken Personality 3 Force, 4 Chi 10 GC, 0 PH Crab Clan • Courtier • Crime Boss • Merchant Reaction: After Tsujiken enters play, target a Holding: Until Tsujiken leaves play, after each time its controller bows it, he loses 1 Honor. Open: Bow Tsujiken and target a Holding: Straighten it. You may bow it if its base Gold Cost is 4 or lower.
Scars of War and Yasuki Tsujiiken's relevant actions both set up continuous effects that will last the rest of the game (or until Tsujiiken leave play in his case).
It is from these effects (and thus their actions) that the honor loss comes from, and not the act of bowing the Holding or using an ability on it.
As long as the trigger for these continuous effects happens within the window of the conditions designated by Rugashi Bazaar and Beautiful Host, then their abilities can be used.
So all the answers to your questions 1 and 2 would be, Yes.
With regards to your question 3, No Time for Games doesn't care who triggered the honor loss, only that it comes from your opponent's card effects. It is legal, and possibly very strategic, to trigger it yourself to gain the force bonus.