The Wind Never Stops against a 0F target.

L5R CCG Rules board, 18 December 2011 to 27 December 2011

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 18 December 2011

Relevant Cards: The Wind Never Stops - Reaction: After the resolution of a Battle action you took that gave a Force penalty to an enemy Follower or Personality without Followers, choose your performing Battle Maiden at the current battlefield: Ranged Attack with strength equal to her Personal Honor which must target the enemy card.

Utaku Fujiko (Exp) - Battle: Reduce the Force of a target enemy Personality or Follower to 0. Draw a card.

From the Bonuses and Penalties Section of the Comprehensive Rules: A bonus or penalty of +0 or -0 is not a bonus or penalty.

Situation: With no cards in hand, my opponent targets my zero force personality with Fujiko's ability and draws The Wind Never Stops.

Question: 1. Has the reaction trigger for The Wind Never Stops already passed because my opponent has already drawn the card? The fact that Draw a card is a separate sentence after the force reduction would seem to indicate that this is the case.

2. Even if the reaction trigger has not passed for The Wind Never Stops, is my 0F personality even a legal target for the action since technically no force penalty ever happened.

I'm 99% confident I already know the answers, but wanted to confirm. Just irritated with myself because it cost me a crucial game at the Emerald Championships against a veteran player who should know it wasn't a legal play. My fault for not taking the time to check it at the time. Live and learn!

A player, 19 December 2011

1. Has the reaction trigger for The Wind Never Stops already passed because my opponent has already drawn the card?

No it has not passed, The Wind Never Stops is played after the card is drawn, because it is a Reaction triggered after the complete resolution of the whole action, not right after the Force penalty.

2. Even if the reaction trigger has not passed for The Wind Never Stops, is my 0F personality even a legal target for the action since technically no force penalty ever happened.

The trigger is not met indeed, because no Force penalty was given, due to the rule that you quoted.

A player, 27 December 2011

So I saw this ruling.

Just wanted to be clear about this. This ruling would only apply if Utaku Fujiko (exp) was dishonored(PH zero), right? Because while a personality with zero force doesn't have their force changed when a new penalty is applied the actual magnitude of that penalty is greater than zero, and would thus not fall into the quoted rule, right? And thus still be a valid trigger for The Wind Never Stops, right?

After all, The penalty would still have to be overcome by force bonuses to change the personalities force up from zero, after it was applied, right?

A player, 27 December 2011

This ruling would only apply if Utaku Fujiko (exp) was dishonored(PH zero), right?

Wrong. The first effect of her Battle action is to "reduce the Force of [the target] to 0" (card text), which does not depend on her Personal Honor. To reduce the Force of a 0F card to 0 means to give it -0F, which is not a penalty per the rule quoted above (see there), so there isn't any valid trigger for The Wind Never Stops.