The Last One and Chi death

L5R CCG Rules board, 26 April 2011 to 29 April 2011

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 26 April 2011

Last one Chi death? can they die if they have - TOKENS Chi? example.

Random personality with -90 C tokens. does the last one prevent him from dying? i said no cause chi death isnt my ability thats killing him its a rule. the perminent +4 the personality gets can that be effected by justly earned victory? even if it was played a few turns ago?

Edit: Well none of that really answers my first question, so ill give a better example. Ujisato or isawa fosuta - exp gives the Personality that has been targeted with the last one - chi tokens equal to his chi does he die?

[Mod edit: Thread title. Please make them specific to help people using the forum's search engine. Thanks! -ZF]

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 28 April 2011

Last one Chi death? can they die if they have - TOKENS Chi? example.

Random personality with -90 C tokens. does the last one prevent him from dying? i said no cause chi death isnt my ability thats killing him its a rule. the perminent +4 the personality gets can that be effected by justly earned victory? even if it was played a few turns ago?

Edit: Well none of that really answers my first question, so ill give a better example. Ujisato or isawa fosuta - exp gives the Personality that has been targeted with the last one - chi tokens equal to his chi does he die?

[Mod edit: Thread title. Please make them specific to help people using the forum's search engine. Thanks! -ZF]

The Personality's destruction from zero chi has to be handed on a case by case basis.

http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Effects#Source_of_effects: "A Personality’s destruction for having 0 Chi (Chi death rule) comes from the cost or effect that last gave the Personality a Chi penalty, or from the rulebook if there was no such effect." (Emphasis added.)

It depends. Usually the source of Chi death is a card effect. But not always.

Permanent force bonuses do not mean "cannot be changed or undone." They mean "past the end of the turn." (http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Glossary_P-Q#Permanent.28ly.29) The Last One's bonus can be negated by Justly Earned Victory.

A player, 29 April 2011

Ujisato or isawa fosuta - exp gives the Personality that has been targeted with the last one - chi tokens equal to his chi does he die?

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 29 April 2011

Ujisato or isawa fosuta - exp gives the Personality that has been targeted with the last one - chi tokens equal to his chi does he die?

http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Non-card_physical_game_elements: "The source of tokens’ effects... is the card or other source that created them."

The source of the Chi penalty is the token, which is a card effect, which is negated by The Last One.