A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 5 March 2011
The ruling is here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=87123&view=unread#p1183093
Does this affect the previous ruling on Kakita Kensho-In XP when she wins multiple duels in the same turn? (It was ruled that her trait triggered twice after the first effect that bows, moves or destroys her, so targetting her with an action with multiple effects will only have the first effect denied).
In short: KAkita kensho-in wins 2 duels in the action phase. She is then targeted by a supperior mobility in battle, at the same turn. Does she deny both movement and destruction, or will she be destroyed becouse of her trait trying to negate the movement twice?
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 5 March 2011
KAkita kensho-in wins 2 duels in the action phase. She is then targeted by a supperior mobility in battle, at the same turn. Does she deny both movement and destruction, or will she be destroyed becouse of her trait trying to negate the movement twice?
Destroyed.
The new ruling is about multiple simultaneous triggers. You're asking not about simultaneous triggers, but simultaneous effects in response to one trigger. Nothing there has changed.
Reminder: When referring to old rulings, please link to them. I'm guessing you mean these:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=79421 viewtopic.php?f=59&t=84055
This has been today's:
A player, 6 March 2011
Zen's response in this thread confuses me: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=89300
Zen said that the new rule (found in this thread viewtopic.php?f=59&t=87123), applies only to simultaneous triggers, not to simultaneous effects keying off one trigger.
However, I think that the new ruling is SOLELY about simultaneous effects keying off one trigger, and exactly the situation described with Kakita Kensho-In xp.
In the Faint Praise v. Kakita Okirou thread, the situation was both Kakita Okirou's effect and Faint Praises's effect both triggering off the same singular event, an honor gain. So, two effects are waiting to trigger. 1) "Before the next time this turn a player gains Honor during his Dynasty Phase or from one of his own actions, he loses that amount of Honor instead of gaining it." 2) "Before the next time this turn a target player gains or loses Honor, reduce the loss or gain by the Focus Value of the discarded card." The new ruling states that when one event triggers both things, the AP gets to choose which one to apply first, and then, after the first is applied, the game checks again to see if the trigger condition is still around, and if not, the other effect remains un-triggered. So, if Okirou is applied first, lowering the honor gain to 0, there is nothing for Faint Praise to trigger off of, and it remains untriggered.
Now let's look at the Kakita Kensho-in xp question, which I think is an exact parallel to the above situation, and I fail to see where situations are different. In Kakita Kensho-in's situation, Kensho-in wins two duels. Each creates an effect from her trait and are waiting to trigger. 1) "Before the next time this turn another player's action bows, moves, or destroys her, negate that effect." 2) "Before the next time this turn another player's action bows, moves, or destroys her, negate that effect."
According to the new ruling, when my opponent plays an effect that will bow Kensho-In, the AP chooses which of those two effects to apply first. AP applies effect #1 first, negating the bowing of Kensho-in. Now, there is nothing for effect #2 to trigger off of, causing it to remain un-triggered, waiting for the next bow, movement, or negation to trigger it.
I fail to see how the two situations are not parallel, and I fail to see how the ruling does not apply to simultaneous effects off of one trigger.
Alex Jones (rules official), 7 March 2011
Zen's response in this thread confuses me: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=89300
Zen said that the new rule (found in this thread viewtopic.php?f=59&t=87123), applies only to simultaneous triggers, not to simultaneous effects keying off one trigger.
However, I think that the new ruling is SOLELY about simultaneous effects keying off one trigger, and exactly the situation described with Kakita Kensho-In xp.
In the Faint Praise v. Kakita Okirou thread, the situation was both Kakita Okirou's effect and Faint Praises's effect both triggering off the same singular event, an honor gain. So, two effects are waiting to trigger. 1) "Before the next time this turn a player gains Honor during his Dynasty Phase or from one of his own actions, he loses that amount of Honor instead of gaining it." 2) "Before the next time this turn a target player gains or loses Honor, reduce the loss or gain by the Focus Value of the discarded card." The new ruling states that when one event triggers both things, the AP gets to choose which one to apply first, and then, after the first is applied, the game checks again to see if the trigger condition is still around, and if not, the other effect remains un-triggered. So, if Okirou is applied first, lowering the honor gain to 0, there is nothing for Faint Praise to trigger off of, and it remains untriggered.
Now let's look at the Kakita Kensho-in xp question, which I think is an exact parallel to the above situation, and I fail to see where situations are different. In Kakita Kensho-in's situation, Kensho-in wins two duels. Each creates an effect from her trait and are waiting to trigger. 1) "Before the next time this turn another player's action bows, moves, or destroys her, negate that effect." 2) "Before the next time this turn another player's action bows, moves, or destroys her, negate that effect."
According to the new ruling, when my opponent plays an effect that will bow Kensho-In, the AP chooses which of those two effects to apply first. AP applies effect #1 first, negating the bowing of Kensho-in. Now, there is nothing for effect #2 to trigger off of, causing it to remain un-triggered, waiting for the next bow, movement, or negation to trigger it.
I fail to see how the two situations are not parallel, and I fail to see how the ruling does not apply to simultaneous effects off of one trigger.
Zen is mistaken. The change in the rules affects simultaneous effects from one trigger.
If Kakita Kensho-in experienced has won two duels (and neither delayed effect has been "used" yet), Superior Mobility will neither move nor destroy her.