Hello there question is: Player A announces he will bow Acrobat troup for 2 honor. Player B reacts on announcement with OAS. Then player A reacts with hamstrung and overpays with 4 gold from Acrobat his hamstrung. Does player A continues to gain honor in his action phase?
Only actions speak Vs hamstrung overpay
A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
Yes.
The mandatory cost of the action from Player A's Acrobat Troup can no longer be paid, so the action’s effects do not happen (see Interference with mandatory costs).
As a consequence, there is no Honor gain to be negated, so the last effect of Only Actions Speak does not apply.
1/ In the ruling in this link, isn't it in fact impossible to do what Player's A announces, because Acrobat Troup is already bowed to produce the initial 2 Honor? In which case the question is not relevant anymore. 2/ What the Hamstrung does in here, I don't know. Isn't Hamstrung's reaction to a movement in Battle? It can not be in the same phase than Acrobat Troup which is a limited action...
(I)sn't it in fact impossible to do what Player's A announces, because Acrobat Troup is already bowed to produce the initial 2 Honor?
No, because Only Actions Speak is triggered by announcing an action. This means that this entire chain of events is started before costs are paid.
What the Hamstrung does in here, I don't know. Isn't Hamstrung's reaction to a movement in Battle? It can not be in the same phase than Acrobat Troup which is a limited action...
Incorrect. The only requirement for Hamstrung is, "Before the resolution of an action." It can legally be played at any point there is an action.
See: http://rules.l5r.com/CE_FAQ#Is_an_actio ... _happen.3F
It's an odd chain of events, but it's correct.
On: Hamstrung
In reference to this.
Just to clarify, the Hamstrung has to react to "before the resolution" of Only Actions Speak in this sequence to be able to be overpaid for by Acrobat Troupe before the costs of the Honor gain must be paid, Right?
I know it is a nitpicky detail, but Zen said.... [quote=Zen]It [Hamstrung] can legally be played at any point there is an action.[/quote]Which might be a little confusing, if taken out of context. To effect the desired result it must be taken at just the right time. Just another reason Hamstrung is way too good....
(T)he Hamstrung has to react to "before the resolution" of Only Actions Speak in this sequence to be able to be overpaid for by Acrobat Troupe before the costs of the Honor gain must be paid, Right?
Instead of... what? I'm not sure of where the confusion lies. That was the sequence in the question.
Zen wrote:It [Hamstrung] can legally be played at any point there is an action.
Which might be a little confusing, if taken out of context. To effect the desired result it must be taken at just the right time.
But then, anything can be confusing when taken out of context...
On: Hamstrung
Clarification for this.
As opposed to taking the Hamstrung in reaction to the resolution of the Honor gain, which while legal, doesn't affect the same outcome since the Acrobat Troops is already bowed. Zen's comment that it can react to any action, while true, doesn't necessarily mean one can pull off this particular timing stunt by reacting to any of the actions in play. Reacting to the right action is also required. I did say it was nitpicky!
In reference to this:
Distractions in Court Political Reaction: After another player’s action is announced, bow your performing Courtier or Magistrate: Reduce all Honor losses by 5 until the action ends.
Two Scenarios, One question Scenario 1 I have one courtier personality in play, unbowed. Scenario 2 I have two courtiers in play. Both unbowed.
Question: If I announce I'm using My Father's Shrine to gain one honor, my opponent reacts with Only Action's Speak, I then react with Distractions in Court to their OAS. I bow a courtier for the cost of DiC.
I'm assuming that for me to pay the cost of MFS, I have to bow a personality, and if I have no personalities unbowed, I can't pay the cost. As long as I have one personality unbowed, I could still pay the cost since the targetting hasn't happened yet from MFS (since OAS and DIC occurred during announcement).
Can I still gain honor during my action phase? In scenario 1? In scenario 2?
Scenario 1: I have one courtier personality in play, unbowed. Scenario 2: I have two courtiers in play. Both unbowed.
If I announce I'm using My Father's Shrine to gain one honor, my opponent reacts with Only Actions Speak, I then react with Distractions in Court to their Only Actions Speak. I bow a courtier for the cost of Distractions in Court.
I'm assuming that for me to pay the cost of My Father's Shrine, I have to bow a personality, and if I have no personalities unbowed, I can't pay the cost. As long as I have one personality unbowed, I could still pay the cost since the targetting hasn't happened yet from My Father's Shrine (since Only Action's Speak and Distractions in Court occurred during announcement).
Can I still gain honor during my action phase? In scenario 1? In scenario 2?
While legal, reacting with Distractions in Court (reduced Honor losses) does nothing to Only Actions Speak (negates Honor gains, not create losses). So you won't be gaining honor in either case.
The rest of the reasoning with the cost payments all seems right, though.
I asked a question previously but I don't understand the answer:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=88352#p1178665
If I react to OAS using Distractions in Court, I'm not playing it to negate an honor loss, I'm playing it to bow my personality that would've been bowed by My Father's Shrine. The point is: If I use DIC to bow my only personality, I shouldn't be able to pay the cost for MFS (bow a personality), correct? Thus OAS does not stop honor gains, so I can continue to gain honor on my action phase. If I use DIC to bow my personality, but I have another unbowed personality, will MFS require that I bow this other unbowed peep? Or since my originally intended personality is now bowed, does MFS fail to gain me honor?
I asked a question previously but I don't understand the answer:
Sorry. I didn't understand the question. (Does that make us even?)
If I use Distractions in Court to bow my only personality, I shouldn't be able to pay the cost for My Father's Shrine (bow a personality), correct? Thus Only Actions Speak does not stop honor gains, so I can continue to gain honor on my action phase.
Ah, I see. Correct.
If I use Distractions in Court to bow my personality, but I have another unbowed personality, will My Father's Shrine require that I bow this other unbowed Personality? Or since my originally intended personality is now bowed, does My Father's Shrine fail to gain me honor?
Since this was triggered at the announcement phase, there's no way to know what was "intended." Since cost payment was not negated, delayed, or made impossible (http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Costs_and_restr ... d_payments), you can and must pay.