A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
I know that it was stated earlier. But I have a question about the Items bonuses. If token bonus is negated even if the direct penalty or bonus is not from action, is the item bonus the same? Because attaching an item is an action so receiving the item bonus is a directly connected to the attaching action.
What is your responce?
If token bonus is negated even if the direct penalty or bonus is not from action, is the item bonus the same?
I do not understand your question. Justly Earned Victory and Shameful Injury only negates bonuses and penalties from actions (including from tokens given by actions), they have no effect on bonuses and penalties from tokens that come from anything else than an action (e.g. A Walking Death's trait).
Because attaching an item is an action so receiving the item bonus is a directly connected to the attaching action.
The fact that the Equip ability in the rulebook enables players to attach Item does not mean that "attaching an item is an action"; for instance think of Secluded Outpost's trait.
Anyway the Force bonuses or penalties that an Item modifiers give to its Personality comes from the Item itself, not the effect that attached it, so they are not negated by Justly Earned Victory nor by Shameful Injury.
Mod reminder: as requested by the rules forum guideline, please use the search function before asking new questions. See "Justly earned Victory and attachement bonuses".
Why there is a difference between Bonus from card and a bonus from token both are created from actions both make some effect to the personality you give to them for me it is inconsistency of the rules either actions is not giving direct bonus the bonus (penalty) appears later, so why the difference ( bonus from attaching action comes from item, bonus from plaing a token comes from token not the action it created/attached it)
Stats bonuses and penalties from Items, from actions or from tokens are different because Items, actions and tokens are different things in the game, so they obey to different rules. For instance Items are not removed from the game when the card they are attached to is destroyed, whereas tokens do.
Per Card types, Items have a Force modifier and a Chi modifier that directly raise or lower their Personality's stats. It does not depend on how the Item was attached (e.g. the Equip ability or Secluded Outpost's trait). These are continous effects.
Per Sources of effects, stats bonuses (or penalties) of tokens come from the effect that created them, or from the effect that last transferred them if they have been transferred, not from the tokens themselves. These are continous effects too. As a consequence, the Chi penalty from a -1C Plague token created by A Walking Death comes from a trait. If it is transferred by an action, that Chi penalty now comes from this action.
Non-token stats bonuses or penalties from actions are ongoing.
Tokens and Items may both provide continuous stats bonuses or penalties, however it does not imply that they are similar in any other way.
Stats bonuses and penalties from Items, from actions or from tokens are different because Items, actions and tokens are different things in the game, so they obey to different rules. For instance Items are not removed from the game when the card they are attached to is destroyed, whereas tokens do.
but they are removed from the game if they are created cards by actions eg. Phantom Blade Kata
Per Sources of effects, stats bonuses (or penalties) of tokens come from the effect that created them, or from the effect that last transferred them if they have been transferred, not from the tokens themselves. These are continous effects too. As a consequence, the Chi penalty from a -1C Plague token created by A Walking Death comes from a trait. If it is transferred by an action, that Chi penalty now comes from this action.
so i can negate force from created items because bonus source is the same as a token?
[Items] are removed from the game if they are created cards by actions eg. Phantom Blade Kata
Indeed, but this is a specific situation. I was explaining the generic case. Once again, a similarity in a specific case does not imply an identity in all situations: the fact that both tokens and created Item cards are removed from the game when the card they are attached to is destroyed, does not imply that any other rule applying to one of them applies to the other one too.
so i can negate force from created items because bonus source is the same as a token?
No. A created Item is a card with the type: Item, so rules about Items apply to it, as well as rules about created cards but they are not relevant here. The source of the +2F bonus from an Item created by Phantom Blade Kata is the Item itself, even if it has been created by an action.