Doji Kurohito (exp2) and overlay

L5R CCG Rules board, 7 April 2010

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 7 April 2010

If Doji Kurohito (exp2) is overlayed (by Doji Kurohito exp3 for example), does his controller remove the Winds he brought into play? Or does the ruling below on Tsuruchi Estui (exp and exp2) also apply to this situation? viewtopic.php?f=59&t=75222

Doji Kurohito Crane Clan Champion. Samurai. Courtier. Double Chi. Experienced 2. Unique. Will only join a Crane Clan player. Bring all Winds you do not have, except the Black Heart of the Empire, into play from outside the game while you control Kurohito. Political Battle: Once per battle, issue an unrefusable challenge to a duel of Personal Honor to an opposing Personality.

Alex Jones (rules official), 7 April 2010

If Doji Kurohito (exp2) is overlayed (by Doji Kurohito exp3 for example), does his controller remove the Winds he brought into play? Or does the ruling below on Tsuruchi Estui (exp and exp2) also apply to this situation? viewtopic.php?f=59&t=75222

Doji Kurohito Crane Clan Champion. Samurai. Courtier. Double Chi. Experienced 2. Unique. Will only join a Crane Clan player. Bring all Winds you do not have, except the Black Heart of the Empire, into play from outside the game while you control Kurohito. Political Battle: Once per battle, issue an unrefusable challenge to a duel of Personal Honor to an opposing Personality.

The Winds are removed from play.

Unlike Etsui exp's trait which creates an ongoing effect, Kurohito exp 2's trait generates a continuous effect which is only applied while it exists. When Kurohito exp 2 is overlaid, the trait is lost, and the continuous effect ends.

A player, 7 April 2010

In this ruling viewtopic.php?f=59&t=82836 you say that the condition ends with an overlay, and I do agree there is a difference between the two types of conditions, Etsui's and Kurohitos. But, the trait states that the winds remain in play while you control Kurohito, when you overlay him he retains his name, and thus you are still meeting the condition., at least in my observation.

Alex Jones (rules official), 7 April 2010

In this ruling viewtopic.php?f=59&t=82836 you say that the condition ends with an overlay, and I do agree there is a difference between the two types of conditions, Etsui's and Kurohitos. But, the trait states that the winds remain in play while you control Kurohito, when you overlay him he retains his name, and thus you are still meeting the condition., at least in my observation.

The name is irrelevant, as the rules on overlaid cards make clear: For purposes of delayed effects on a particular card, and for effects that track whether a card remains in play, the overlaid card is considered to be the same card as the underlying card.

However, continuous effects are different to ongoing effects: While their card is out of play, continuous traits affect the card they are on, and only that card, unless the trait states otherwise.