A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 15 March 2010
Humble House Bow this card: Produce 3 Gold. Limited: Bow this card: Target a Personality. He visits a sake house. Give him a +1F Sake token. Remove it after your next Events Phase.
Tsubo the Drunk 0/2 -/-4-0 Ronin * Samurai * Sake Addict * Washed Up
After Tsubo enters play: Give him five +1F Sake tokens. If Tsubo ever has no Sake tokens: He is sober; destroy him. After each of your Events Phases: Remove a Sake token from Tsubo.
The question: Can the Sake token that is removed by Tsubo, be one gained via Humble House? Because of being the active player, you would choose which is removed first, and both say to remove it/a Sake token "after your Events Phase" either each of yours or your next.
Alex Jones (rules official), 15 March 2010
Humble House Bow this card: Produce 3 Gold. Limited: Bow this card: Target a Personality. He visits a sake house. Give him a +1F Sake token. Remove it after your next Events Phase.
Tsubo the Drunk 0/2 -/-4-0 Ronin * Samurai * Sake Addict * Washed Up
After Tsubo enters play: Give him five +1F Sake tokens. If Tsubo ever has no Sake tokens: He is sober; destroy him. After each of your Events Phases: Remove a Sake token from Tsubo.
The question: Can the Sake token that is removed by Tsubo, be one gained via Humble House? Because of being the active player, you would choose which is removed first, and both say to remove it/a Sake token "after your Events Phase" either each of yours or your next.
Yes.
See Timing Sequence: If two or more reactions, triggered traits, or rules procedures are triggered at the same point in time, follow this sequence from A through C to decide their order. ... B. Anything that is triggered at this point but is not a Reaction happens now. This includes triggered traits, delayed effects, indefinite conditional effects, triggered rulebook effects (such as losing Honor after a dishonourable Personality is destroyed). If more than one of these things conflict, the active player decides the order in which they happen.
Removing the Sake token created by Humble House is a delayed effect, and Tsubo has a triggered trait that removes a Sake token; these both have the same timing point ("after your Events Phase") and both fall under step B so the active player decides which happens first.
A player, 16 March 2010
I'm confused by the ruling made in reference here:
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=82388
this seems to state that one can tell the difference between X tokens after they've been given, ie a +1 Sake token (tsubo) and +1 Sake token (humble house)- this doesn't make sense to me as the tokens given are not specifically indicated as being different. How can i tell the difference between tokens once they are added (i don't mean visually of course)
it seems to me that tsubo would still lose 2 tokens after the event phase: 1 from the humble house and 1 from his card effect as the game should not be able to tell the difference bewteen 2 identical tokens. your ruling seems to indicate otherwise. could this be clarified abit further. thank you for your time.
Humble House Bow this card: Produce 3 Gold. Limited: Bow this card: Target a Personality. He visits a sake house. Give him a +1F Sake token. Remove it after your next Events Phase.
Tsubo the Drunk 0/2 -/-4-0 Ronin * Samurai * Sake Addict * Washed Up
After Tsubo enters play: Give him five +1F Sake tokens. If Tsubo ever has no Sake tokens: He is sober; destroy him. After each of your Events Phases: Remove a Sake token from Tsubo.
edited for grammar
Dan Jacobson (rules official), 16 March 2010
I'm confused by the ruling made in reference here:
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=82388
this seems to state that one can tell the difference between X tokens after they've been given, ie a +1 Sake token (tsubo) and +1 Sake token (humble house)- this doesn't make sense to me as the tokens given are not specifically indicated as being different. How can i tell the difference between tokens once they are added (i don't mean visually of course)
it seems to me that tsubo would still lose 2 tokens after the event phase: 1 from the humble house and 1 from his card effect as the game should not be able to tell the difference bewteen 2 identical tokens. your ruling seems to indicate otherwise. could this be clarified abit further. thank you for your time.
Humble House Bow this card: Produce 3 Gold. Limited: Bow this card: Target a Personality. He visits a sake house. Give him a +1F Sake token. Remove it after your next Events Phase.
Tsubo the Drunk 0/2 -/-4-0 Ronin * Samurai * Sake Addict * Washed Up
After Tsubo enters play: Give him five +1F Sake tokens. If Tsubo ever has no Sake tokens: He is sober; destroy him. After each of your Events Phases: Remove a Sake token from Tsubo.
edited for grammar
Tsubo the Drunk does not care what Sake token is removed, just that one is.
Humble House specifically refers to the Sake Token it created.
If it is already removed via Tsubo's trait, then the delayed effect created by Humble House will simply fail.
Happy drinking!