A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 27 January 2010
Spinning this off from the Legacy Keyword discussion because it has implications outside of Legacy and seems to be a reversal of previous interactions. Regarding the Stronghold Immunity clause in the CE rules, the ruling was: Note that Yuki no Onna does not count Heart of the Shinomen Forest as a Forest for her bonus because it is an "effect ... referring to a particular keyword that a Stronghold has".
The CE rules say that "effects ... referring to a particular keyword that a Stronghold has ... do not legally apply to a Stronghold ... unless [specific Stronghold-referring stuff]" (emphasis mine). This rule appear to have its origins in the original port-keyworded stronghold, Kyuden Yoritomo ("This stronghold counts as a port, but is not affected by cards that affect ports.") At the time, Kyuden Yoritomo counted for Yoritomo Tanuki ("Yoritomo Takuni has a base Force equal to the number of Ports you have in play.") but could not be destroyed by Orochi ("Battle: Destroy any one Port or Pearl Bed that is controlled by the defender. I believe when the status of strongholds was changed for them to act as cards, this behavior was preserved, and has been represented by the progression of Mantis strongholds with the keyword: Kyuden Gotei (originally "Kyuden Gotei counts as a Port card", later "Port"), and Seven Seas Port (also just "Port").
I think that I am confused as to how keywords on Strongholds interact with the game under the current rules set, if at all. Can an "effect ... referring to a particular keyword that a Stronghold has ..." apply to other cards if that effect does not apply to the stronghold other than by referring to its keyword? To avoid Legacy complications for the moment, let's look at CE Mantis:
Seven Seas Port Stronghold: Mantis (2FH / 4GP / 7 PS) Port Recon Open: Target a province. Your Mantis Clan Personalities and your Scout Followers have +1F while at that province's battlefield.
Simple Merchants Holding (7G) Unique Bow this card: Produce 4 Gold, plus 1 additional Gold for each Farm, Mine, and Port you control.
Umi-Bozu Personality (7F / 3C / -HR / 8GC / 0PH) Shadowlands • Nonhuman • Oni • Water • Naval After Umi-Bozu enters play: Lose 6 Honor. Battle: Bow a target enemy card without attachments. If you control a Port, negate the enemy card's straightening until its controller's next Straighten Phase.
Yoritomo's Guidance Celestial Kami • Unique When a Mantis Clan player's Port Holding produces Gold: It produces one additional Gold. Reaction: After a battle resolution that destroyed a province, if you are a Mantis Clan player and the Attacker, discard this card: Gain a province to the left of your leftmost province.
Yoritomo's Guidance clearly does not apply to the stronghold because it clearly enumerates holdings (indeed, Seven Seas Port is the only non-holding with the port keyword in CE). However, does the Stronghold Immunity rule prevent Seven Seas Port from adding to the gold production of Simple Merchants or allowing the additional effect of Umi-Bozu? Both these cards have "effects" that "refer[] to a particular keyword a Stronghold has", but neither effect is (arguably) being "appl[ied] to the Stronghold".
If Seven Seas Port counts in either of these cases, how does that differ from Heart of the Shinomen Forest/Yuki no Onna in Legacy?
If Seven Seas Port counts in neither of these cases, then two questions are raised. First, is this an intended reversal of the interaction of Mantis port-keyworded strongholds with port-watching cards (whether in CE or Legacy environments)? And second, what is the intended mechanical purpose of the port keyword on Seven Seas Port (or, in Legacy, on any of the above Mantis strongholds)?
Alex Jones (rules official), 27 January 2010
Spinning this off from the Legacy Keyword discussion because it has implications outside of Legacy and seems to be a reversal of previous interactions. Regarding the Stronghold Immunity clause in the CE rules, the ruling was: Note that Yuki no Onna does not count Heart of the Shinomen Forest as a Forest for her bonus because it is an "effect ... referring to a particular keyword that a Stronghold has".
The CE rules say that "effects ... referring to a particular keyword that a Stronghold has ... do not legally apply to a Stronghold ... unless [specific Stronghold-referring stuff]" (emphasis mine). This rule appear to have its origins in the original port-keyworded stronghold, Kyuden Yoritomo ("This stronghold counts as a port, but is not affected by cards that affect ports.") At the time, Kyuden Yoritomo counted for Yoritomo Tanuki ("Yoritomo Takuni has a base Force equal to the number of Ports you have in play.") but could not be destroyed by Orochi ("Battle: Destroy any one Port or Pearl Bed that is controlled by the defender. I believe when the status of strongholds was changed for them to act as cards, this behavior was preserved, and has been represented by the progression of Mantis strongholds with the keyword: Kyuden Gotei (originally "Kyuden Gotei counts as a Port card", later "Port"), and Seven Seas Port (also just "Port").
I think that I am confused as to how keywords on Strongholds interact with the game under the current rules set, if at all. Can an "effect ... referring to a particular keyword that a Stronghold has ..." apply to other cards if that effect does not apply to the stronghold other than by referring to its keyword? To avoid Legacy complications for the moment, let's look at CE Mantis:
Seven Seas Port Stronghold: Mantis (2FH / 4GP / 7 PS) Port Recon Open: Target a province. Your Mantis Clan Personalities and your Scout Followers have +1F while at that province's battlefield.
Simple Merchants Holding (7G) Unique Bow this card: Produce 4 Gold, plus 1 additional Gold for each Farm, Mine, and Port you control.
Umi-Bozu Personality (7F / 3C / -HR / 8GC / 0PH) Shadowlands • Nonhuman • Oni • Water • Naval After Umi-Bozu enters play: Lose 6 Honor. Battle: Bow a target enemy card without attachments. If you control a Port, negate the enemy card's straightening until its controller's next Straighten Phase.
Yoritomo's Guidance Celestial Kami • Unique When a Mantis Clan player's Port Holding produces Gold: It produces one additional Gold. Reaction: After a battle resolution that destroyed a province, if you are a Mantis Clan player and the Attacker, discard this card: Gain a province to the left of your leftmost province.
Yoritomo's Guidance clearly does not apply to the stronghold because it clearly enumerates holdings (indeed, Seven Seas Port is the only non-holding with the port keyword in CE). However, does the Stronghold Immunity rule prevent Seven Seas Port from adding to the gold production of Simple Merchants or allowing the additional effect of Umi-Bozu? Both these cards have "effects" that "refer[] to a particular keyword a Stronghold has", but neither effect is (arguably) being "appl[ied] to the Stronghold".
If Seven Seas Port counts in either of these cases, how does that differ from Heart of the Shinomen Forest/Yuki no Onna in Legacy?
If Seven Seas Port counts in neither of these cases, then two questions are raised. First, is this an intended reversal of the interaction of Mantis port-keyworded strongholds with port-watching cards (whether in CE or Legacy environments)? And second, what is the intended mechanical purpose of the port keyword on Seven Seas Port (or, in Legacy, on any of the above Mantis strongholds)?
Under discussion.
A player, 9 August 2010
In this question you say that you don't know if having a Stronghold with a a trait counts as a card woth that trait or not:
How does Seven Seas Port's trait? Does it counts as if you control a port or not?
EDIT: I edit including a link to the rules about this:
http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Card_types#Stronghold
Example 4: Your Stronghold has the Port keyword. A trait that says "Produce 1 Gold for each Port you control" would count the Stronghold because it does not target or change the game state of your Stronghold.
Then with this rule from accumulated, Seven Seas Port works with Umi-Bozu and Simple Merchants because it doesn't change or target the port. Its text says "If you control a port..." so it should work with.
Yoritomo's Guidance doesn't work because a Stronghold isn't a holding.