A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 2 September 2009
Hi,
I didn't found anything about this, so...
I play the Seiden Sanzo' Limited action. Then, the personality died at the begining of the Dinasty phase.
When the Seiden Sanzo' effects (cavalry and +3F) end and why? - at the end of the turn - when the personality enter in the Discard pile - never
More generaly, what happens on the duration of an effect when it's applied on a card in play which become out of play before the "normal" end of thise effect? Have the duration of the effect is changed/negated or nothing?
Seiden Sanzo Limited: Target a Personality you own and control. Give him Cavalry and +3F. Destroy him after your next Dynasty Phase begins.
Alex Jones (rules official), 2 September 2009
Hi,
I didn't found anything about this, so...
I play the Seiden Sanzo' Limited action. Then, the personality died at the begining of the Dinasty phase.
When the Seiden Sanzo' effects (cavalry and +3F) end and why? - at the end of the turn - when the personality enter in the Discard pile - never
More generaly, what happens on the duration of an effect when it's applied on a card in play which become out of play before the "normal" end of thise effect? Have the duration of the effect is changed/negated or nothing?
Seiden Sanzo Limited: Target a Personality you own and control. Give him Cavalry and +3F. Destroy him after your next Dynasty Phase begins.
See Effects, and in particular Tracking Rule: “Memory” of the status of individual cards ends when the card enters a deck or a hand, or otherwise becomes both face-down and out of play (such as after a card in the deck or hand is shown). This includes dishonorable status, ongoing effects, and whether or not an ability has been used.
Ongoing effects (such as "Give him Cavalry and +F") on a dead Personality have their normal duration; delayed effects (such as "Destroy him after your next Dynasty Phase begins") are applied normally. These effects are only erased if the Personality is both face down and out of play, for example in a hand, deck or face-down in a province.
A player, 9 September 2009
regarding this post viewtopic.php?f=59&t=78829
Unless I am misunderstanding AkodoGilador, he is saying that unless the personality is both face down and out of play it continues to hold the +3 force and cavalry that Seiden Sanzo gave to the personality.
So if I use Seiden Sanzo on Hida Kaoru, then she dies at the beginning of my dynasty phase, then on my next turn, I Will her back into play, does she still have +3 force and the cavalry trait? It would appear based off of what AkodoGilador said, that since the effect does not say 'until the end of turn' it might still be there. However it does not say 'permanently give'. I am going to assume the effect does NOT stay permanently, but I would love a ruling from you guys!
Thanks for everything you do, rules team!
Will Battle: If you control an opposed unit at the current battlefield, target your dead Samurai Personality: Bring him into play there, paying 2 less Gold and ignoring Honor Requirements.
Seiden Sanzo Limited: Target a Personality you own and control. Give him Cavalry and +3F. Destroy him after your next Dynasty Phase begins.
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 9 September 2009
(I)f I use Seiden Sanzo on Hida Kaoru, then she dies at the beginning of my dynasty phase, then on my next turn, I Will her back into play, does she still have +3 force and the cavalry trait?
Yes, for reasons given in previous post.
Whoopsie: That's wrong, because I missed "next turn." Effects last their normal duration whether a card is in play or out. Here, that's end of turn.
A player, 9 September 2009
viewtopic.php?p=1035998#p1035998
Doesn't the effect of Seiden Sanzo end when the turn does, as that is the standard duration for effects?
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 9 September 2009
viewtopic.php?p=1035998#p1035998
Doesn't the effect of Seiden Sanzo end when the turn does, as that is the standard duration for effects?
Whoops. Missed the "next turn" condition in the question. You're right.