A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 28 July 2009
Utaku Kohana exp: After the resolution of an action which gave a Force penalty to any enemy cards at the current battlefield, if Kohana is there: Gain 1 Honor. Battle: Bow Kohana: Bow a target enemy Personality with lower Personal Honor.
Low Stance: Focus Effect: Before this duel’s resolution, negate all bonuses to each focused card’s Focus Value. Battle: Target your unbowed Samurai Personality: Target an enemy Personality. After this Combat Segment ends, reduce his Force to 0
Does Utaku Kohana exp reacts to the battle action of low stance when used? or before resolution when the penalty is given and the action has been resolved long ago don't trigger the trait?
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 28 July 2009
Does Utaku Kohana exp reacts to the battle action of low stance when used?
Kohana's reaction is after action resolution, not the bonus. The key point to answer here is, "When does an action resolve?"
http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_R#Resolve: "(An action) stops resolving when its sequence of effect activation has ended, even if the application of some effects has been delayed."
Kohana's trait occurs before the delayed effect kicks in at the end of the Combat Segment. Because her trait refers to the penalty in the past tense ("gave"), the penalty must be an immediate effect, not a delayed effect, for the honor gain to kick in.
(Clarified / fixed.)
A player, 28 July 2009
regarding this viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77894
What happens if a player uses low stance and the targeted personality is subsequently killed? There was no force penalty given, so why does kohana xp's trait still trigger?
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 28 July 2009
regarding this viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77894
What happens if a player uses low stance and the targeted personality is subsequently killed? There was no force penalty given, so why does kohana xp's trait still trigger?
Because the trait triggers off of the resolution of an action that has a penalty as one of its base effects, not the actual application of the penalty.
[See clarification above.]
A player, 28 July 2009
Regarding this viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77894
Kohana's trait triggers to the resolution of an action that gives a force penalty. It appears that low stance gives a force penalty to a personality as a delayed effect.
Kohana's trait reads: After the resolution of an action which gave a Force penalty to any enemy cards at the current battlefield, if Kohana is there: Gain 1 Honor.
Zen said "Because the trait triggers off of the resolution of an action that has a penalty as one of its base effects, not the actual application of the penalty."
It appears to me that while kohana reacts to the resolution of an action, she requires the action to give out a force penalty (something low stance does as a delayed effect). Does this mean that kohana's trait would trigger when someone plays, for example, three stone river? I don't understand how kohana's trait will trigger when there is no immediate force penalty when her trait specifically says "which gave a force penalty to any enemy cards." As I see it the sequence for low stance is:
Play low stance - Low stance resolves. Kohana's trait fails to trigger: there was no force penalty given, only a delayed effect which will create a force penalty. Low stance's delayed effect kicks in, but since low stance has already resolved, kohana's trait can't trigger.
Can you explain to me why kohana's trait will trigger on low stance when low stance doesn't create a force penalty at the time of its resolution, when her trait specifically requires a force penalty to have been resolved and administered to an enemy personality?
Alex Jones (rules official), 28 July 2009
Regarding this viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77894
Kohana's trait triggers to the resolution of an action that gives a force penalty. It appears that low stance gives a force penalty to a personality as a delayed effect.
Kohana's trait reads: After the resolution of an action which gave a Force penalty to any enemy cards at the current battlefield, if Kohana is there: Gain 1 Honor.
Zen said "Because the trait triggers off of the resolution of an action that has a penalty as one of its base effects, not the actual application of the penalty."
It appears to me that while kohana reacts to the resolution of an action, she requires the action to give out a force penalty (something low stance does as a delayed effect). Does this mean that kohana's trait would trigger when someone plays, for example, three stone river? I don't understand how kohana's trait will trigger when there is no immediate force penalty when her trait specifically says "which gave a force penalty to any enemy cards." As I see it the sequence for low stance is:
Play low stance - Low stance resolves. Kohana's trait fails to trigger: there was no force penalty given, only a delayed effect which will create a force penalty. Low stance's delayed effect kicks in, but since low stance has already resolved, kohana's trait can't trigger.
Can you explain to me why kohana's trait will trigger on low stance when low stance doesn't create a force penalty at the time of its resolution, when her trait specifically requires a force penalty to have been resolved and administered to an enemy personality?
As Zen says, Utaku Kohana exp's trait is not triggered by Low Stance.
Her trait specifies both a point in time when it triggers and an effect that must have happened by that time. At the timing point when her trait would trigger, Low Stance has not yet created a force penalty. At the effect point when it would trigger, the time is well past. These two are never simultaneously satisfied, so her trait never triggers.