A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 14 April 2009
Per the Black Silk Castle VS Hall of Ancestors ruling, where the word "removed" was revealed to still count people that couldn't be removed, but tried to be, does Tempered Ressurection provide a Cost Reduction when used in Hall of Ancestors, when you *attempt* to remove one of your honorably dead personalities, but fail due to the trait?
Tempered Ressurection Relevant Text: Fire Open: Bow this Shugenja unless he has the Fire keyword: You may remove an honorably dead Personality you own from the game. Target a face-up Personality in one of your provinces. Reduce his Gold Cost by the Gold Cost of any Personality you removed. Bring the target into play (paying all costs).
Hall of Ancestors Relevant Text: "Dead Personalities you own can not be removed from the game."
Alex Jones (rules official), 20 April 2009
Per the Black Silk Castle VS Hall of Ancestors ruling, where the word "removed" was revealed to still count people that couldn't be removed, but tried to be, does Tempered Ressurection provide a Cost Reduction when used in Hall of Ancestors, when you *attempt* to remove one of your honorably dead personalities, but fail due to the trait?
Tempered Ressurection Relevant Text: Fire Open: Bow this Shugenja unless he has the Fire keyword: You may remove an honorably dead Personality you own from the game. Target a face-up Personality in one of your provinces. Reduce his Gold Cost by the Gold Cost of any Personality you removed. Bring the target into play (paying all costs).
Hall of Ancestors Relevant Text: "Dead Personalities you own can not be removed from the game."
No. In the case of Tempered Resurrection, the cost reduction is dependent on the removal.
A player, 20 April 2009
Could someone please explain to me why this doesn't work but Black Silk Castle Does?
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 20 April 2009
Could someone please explain to me why this doesn't work but Black Silk Castle Does?
Under discussion.
A player, 13 May 2009
Per the Black Silk Castle VS Hall of Ancestors ruling, where the word "removed" was revealed to still count people that couldn't be removed, but tried to be, does Tempered Ressurection provide a Cost Reduction when used in Hall of Ancestors, when you *attempt* to remove one of your honorably dead personalities, but fail due to the trait?
Tempered Ressurection Relevant Text: Fire Open: Bow this Shugenja unless he has the Fire keyword: You may remove an honorably dead Personality you own from the game. Target a face-up Personality in one of your provinces. Reduce his Gold Cost by the Gold Cost of any Personality you removed. Bring the target into play (paying all costs).
Hall of Ancestors Relevant Text: "Dead Personalities you own can not be removed from the game."
Alex Jones (rules official), 14 May 2009
Per the Black Silk Castle VS Hall of Ancestors ruling, where the word "removed" was revealed to still count people that couldn't be removed, but tried to be, does Tempered Ressurection provide a Cost Reduction when used in Hall of Ancestors, when you *attempt* to remove one of your honorably dead personalities, but fail due to the trait?
Tempered Ressurection Relevant Text: Fire Open: Bow this Shugenja unless he has the Fire keyword: You may remove an honorably dead Personality you own from the game. Target a face-up Personality in one of your provinces. Reduce his Gold Cost by the Gold Cost of any Personality you removed. Bring the target into play (paying all costs).
Hall of Ancestors Relevant Text: "Dead Personalities you own can not be removed from the game."
Still under discussion.
However, the rationale for current ruling is that Tempered Resurrection is worded such that the cost reduction is dependent on the removal, since you can always choose not to remove a dead Personality from the game anyway; Black Silk Castle is perhaps poorly worded, but uses removed purely to reference a card selected earlier in the text (without using incomprehensible "party of the first part" style language) for some effect, without regards to whether that effect actually occurred.