A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 16 January 2009
1. If one of my personnality is destroyed by a kill + determination (by losing a determinated duel, a determinated peasant veangeance,...), can I use death after life + determination to save his life ?
Thanks !
Determination : Dark Virtue Reaction: After you announce an action, target one of your Samurai: The action cannot have its effects negated or have its targeting changed. After the action destroys any Personality, remove him from the game.
Death after Life : Reaction: After one of your Personalities is destroyed during battle: Lose 5 Honor. Target a dead Personality in your discard pile, or in any discard pile if you are a Spider Clan player. Permanently give him Shadowlands and Undead. Bring him into play in your current army, ignoring restrictions (paying all costs).
2.Same question with Kill + Determination & Hope from death + Determination ? Thx.
Hope from Death : Reaction: After one of your Human Personalities is destroyed during battle, pay his gold cost unless you are a Phoenix Clan player: Overlay his card on one of your target Human Personalities at the current battlefield, ignoring title and experience levels.
Alex Jones (rules official), 16 January 2009
1. If one of my personnality is destroyed by a kill + determination (by losing a determinated duel, a determinated peasant veangeance,...), can I use death after life + determination to save his life ?
Thanks !
Determination : Dark Virtue Reaction: After you announce an action, target one of your Samurai: The action cannot have its effects negated or have its targeting changed. After the action destroys any Personality, remove him from the game.
Death after Life : Reaction: After one of your Personalities is destroyed during battle: Lose 5 Honor. Target a dead Personality in your discard pile, or in any discard pile if you are a Spider Clan player. Permanently give him Shadowlands and Undead. Bring him into play in your current army, ignoring restrictions (paying all costs).
2.Same question with Kill + Determination & Hope from death + Determination ? Thx.
Hope from Death : Reaction: After one of your Human Personalities is destroyed during battle, pay his gold cost unless you are a Phoenix Clan player: Overlay his card on one of your target Human Personalities at the current battlefield, ignoring title and experience levels.
No.
Determination's ongoing effect ("After the action destroys any Personality, remove him from the game") triggers before Reactions to the destruction. When the timing point for Reactions to the destruction is reached, that Personality is no longer in the discard pile, so he is not a valid target for Death After Life, although another dead Personality in your discard pile would be a legal target.
The case of Death After Life is slightly more complicated. It implicitly overrides the rule that cards in out-of-play areas are not affected by effects, but only for the discard pile since that is the default destination of destroyed cards. To affect a card which has been removed from the game, it would need to refer to that area explicitly.
See In and Out of Play.
Note that Determination applied to either Reaction is irrelevant, since Determination will only negate negatable effects. In the case of Death After Life it does not expand the range of targets; in the case of Hope after Death it does not negate rulebook restrictions.