A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 27 November 2008
I am confused regarding the new errata and this post.
With the new change in timing for determination, the use of misdirection changes drastically.
Situation: Player 1: Announces a warrior's challenge Before targets are chosen, Player 2: Announces Misdirection Player 1: Announces Determination Must Player 2 choose the exact same targets now?
Relevant Card text: Determination (errata): Dark Virtue Reaction: After you announce an action, target one of your Samurai: The action cannot have its effects negated or have its targeting changed. After the action destroys any Personality, remove him from the game.
Misdirection Political Gozoku Reaction: Before another player would choose targets for one of his action’s effects during a battle, target one of your Courtier or Gozoku Personalities: You choose the targets instead.
Opinion: Used to be that with the different timing Misdirection could be stored for a later use, but now determination has become the new attacker's reinforce the gates making it such that the defensive player wastes the card.
Obviously I hope this isn't the case, but I fear that there isn't any other real interpretation unless there is a clarification of rules timing to allow for reactions to be intimately tied to their triggers (i.e.: After Player 1 Announces the warrior's challenge and before the targets are chosen, If Player 2 asks player 1 "Are you going to determine the warrior's challenge?" and he/she responds with a "no" then Player 2 is free to play misdirection without it being canceled. Of course this will never happen, as a good player will lie and then destroy the misdirection with his determination because attacking players choose the order in which reactions occur.)
Of course then again I am not a genius and I may have misunderstood card timing.
[Mod edit: Thread title. -ZF]
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 27 November 2008
I am confused regarding the new errata and this post.
With the new change in timing for determination, the use of misdirection changes drastically.
Situation: Player 1: Announces a warrior's challenge Before targets are chosen, Player 2: Announces Misdirection Player 1: Announces Determination Must Player 2 choose the exact same targets now?
Relevant Card text: Determination (errata): Dark Virtue Reaction: After you announce an action, target one of your Samurai: The action cannot have its effects negated or have its targeting changed. After the action destroys any Personality, remove him from the game.
Misdirection Political Gozoku Reaction: Before another player would choose targets for one of his action’s effects during a battle, target one of your Courtier or Gozoku Personalities: You choose the targets instead.
Opinion: Used to be that with the different timing Misdirection could be stored for a later use, but now determination has become the new attacker's reinforce the gates making it such that the defensive player wastes the card.
Obviously I hope this isn't the case, but I fear that there isn't any other real interpretation unless there is a clarification of rules timing to allow for reactions to be intimately tied to their triggers (i.e.: After Player 1 Announces the warrior's challenge and before the targets are chosen, If Player 2 asks player 1 "Are you going to determine the warrior's challenge?" and he/she responds with a "no" then Player 2 is free to play misdirection without it being canceled. Of course this will never happen, as a good player will lie and then destroy the misdirection with his determination because attacking players choose the order in which reactions occur.)
Of course then again I am not a genius and I may have misunderstood card timing.
[Mod edit: Thread title. -ZF]
Determination (triggered by announcement) has always been played before Misdirection (triggered by targeting). The use of the two cards relative to each other has not changed.