A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
If Contemplation of Destiny bows a Unique personality controlled by a Maw's Grave player, what happens?
The card says, "If he does not have his controller's Clan alignment," but in this case, the controller doesn't have a Clan alignment to begin with. Am I correct in assuming that the personality merely bows and no traits or abilities are removed?
If Contemplation of Destiny bows a Unique personality controlled by a Maw's Grave player, what happens?
The card says, "If he does not have his controller's Clan alignment," but in this case, the controller doesn't have a Clan alignment to begin with. Am I correct in assuming that the personality merely bows and no traits or abilities are removed?
EDIT: Fixed, see below.
Dan Jacobson wrote:TheNinthGuardian wrote:If Contemplation of Destiny bows a Unique personality controlled by a Maw's Grave player, what happens?
The card says, "If he does not have his controller's Clan alignment," but in this case, the controller doesn't have a Clan alignment to begin with. Am I correct in assuming that the personality merely bows and no traits or abilities are removed?
The Maw's Grave player has no Clan Alignment. The Unique Personality bows, but no traits or abilities may be removed from him.
You are correct.
After some discussion, it has been made apparent that if you, as a player, do not have a Clan Alignment (a la The Maw's Grave), then any person you control automatically does not have your Clan Alignment, since you have none.
The player of Contemplation of Destiny, when played on a Unique personality controlled by a The Maw's Grave player may choose a trait or ability and permanently remove it.
This is a REVERSAL.
EDIT: Please see above as my ruling has changed slightly.
Unique personalities with no Clan Alignment will never have their controller's Clan Alignment as per Contemplation of Destiny's text. If a player plays Contemplation of Destiny on a Unique personality with no Clan Alignment, they may remove a trait or ability as per the secondary effect.
Well, it won't let me quote.
Kaiu Genji said: "After some discussion, it has been made apparent that if you, as a player, do not have a Clan Alignment (a la The Maw's Grave), then any person you control WITH a Clan Alignment automatically does not have your Clan Alignment, since you have none. The player of Contemplation of Destiny on a Clan Aligned Unique personality controlled by a The Maw's Grave player may choose a trait or ability and permanently remove it. This is a REVERSAL"
But, by that logic, it seems to me any Unique under The Maw's Grave would suffer the extra effect of Contemplation. The card says "if he does not have his controller's Clan Alignment" not "if he has a Clan Alignment that is not his controller's".
In response to this thread.
I play my bro in this a lot, and we looked up ther rulebook and found the below text. The answer in the above thread seems to contradict my understanding of the the unaligned definition in the rule book.
P1 - The player who plays The Maw's Grave has no clan alignment (thereby being considered unaligned). (see Zen Faulke's Post) P2 - Unaligned players do not "have the same clan alignment as an" unaligned personality. (see rulebook definition of unaligned) P3 - Contemplation of Destiny asks "If he does not have his controller's Clan alignment" then the effects carry through. (see card text below) C - A Maw's Grave player will have the second set of effects always trigger on him.
A maw's grave player (or any unaligned stronghold user) is always vulnerable to the second condition in the Contemplation of Destiny.
Thanks for your time, this just confused me a bit.
Relevant Text: Unaligned - A Personality, player, or Stronghold without a Clan alignment. Unaligned Personalities do not have the same Clan alignment as an Unaligned player or Stronghold, nor do they have a different Clan alignment from anything.
Contemplation of Destiny - Open: Bow another player's target Unique Personality. If he does not have his controller's Clan alignment, permanently remove one of his base abilities or traits (not keywords).
Zen Faulkes PostIt (being Maw's Grave) has no faction trait to gain, so it would be unaligned (http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_U#Unaligned).
Pardon this, I posted this last night in the wrong forums. I just wanted the rule's team to clarify this ruling.
In response to this thread.
I play my bro in this a lot, and we looked up ther rulebook and found the below text. The answer in the above thread seems to contradict my understanding of the the unaligned definition in the rule book.
P1 - The player who plays The Maw's Grave has no clan alignment (thereby being considered unaligned). (see Zen Faulke's Post) P2 - Unaligned players do not "have the same clan alignment as an" unaligned personality. (see rulebook definition of unaligned) P3 - Contemplation of Destiny asks "If he does not have his controller's Clan alignment" then the effects carry through. (see card text below) C - A Maw's Grave player will have the second set of effects always trigger on him.
A maw's grave player (or any unaligned stronghold user) is always vulnerable to the second condition in the Contemplation of Destiny.
Thanks for your time, this just confused me a bit.
Relevant Text: Unaligned - A Personality, player, or Stronghold without a Clan alignment. Unaligned Personalities do not have the same Clan alignment as an Unaligned player or Stronghold, nor do they have a different Clan alignment from anything.
Contemplation of Destiny - Open: Bow another player's target Unique Personality. If he does not have his controller's Clan alignment, permanently remove one of his base abilities or traits (not keywords).
Zen Faulkes PostIt (being Maw's Grave) has no faction trait to gain, so it would be unaligned (http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_U#Unaligned).
Pardon this, I posted this last night in the wrong forums. I just wanted the rule's team to clarify this ruling.
Please see the original ruling for clarification on this.
Please see here for the correction.
Please look at the original ruling for further clarification. Thank you!