A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 6 September 2008
Shosuro Seibei
Scorpion Clan • Samurai • Yojimbo • Unique When another player would target a Courtier at Seibei's location with an action: It targets Seibei instead, if legal.
Determination
Dark Virtue Reaction: Before you announce an action, target one of your Samurai: The action can not have its effects negated or have its targeting changed. After the action destroys any Personality, remove him from the game.
Misdirection
Focus Effect: You may shuffle up to 3 Personalities from your discard pile into your Dynasty deck. Political Gozoku Reaction: Before another player would choose targets for one of his action’s effects during a battle, target one of your Courtier or Gozoku Personalities: You choose the targets instead.
I just have a couple questions regarding how Shosuro Seibei interacts with Misdirection and Detmination. The following assume that Seibei is a legal target to the action being played.
1) Another player attempts to target one of my courtiers, Seibei trait triggers. Am I able to use Misdirection to redirect the action to one of my courtiers?
2) A player attempts to target one of my courtiers with an action, reacting with a Determination. Would the action still redirect to Seibei. Now I am familiar with the ruling that Misdirection cannot redirect an action played with a determination, but Seibei is worded differently, specifically: "would target a Courtier at Seibei's location". This leads me to believe that the courtier was never targeted in the first place, thus no redirection needs to take place, and despite the Determination the action will still target Seibei instead of the courtier. Is this correct?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 7 September 2008
1) Another player attempts to target one of my courtiers, Seibei trait triggers. Am I able to use Misdirection to redirect the action to one of my courtiers?
No. It's too late for Misdirection at this point; as per its text, you must play it before your opponent chooses his target.
http://rules.l5r.com/Timing: "Timing "when" a trigger occurs comes later than "before" but prior to "after" the trigger."
However, even if you do play Misdirection at the appropriate time and try to choose one of your Courtiers as a target, Seibei's trait would still trigger and cause him to be targeted instead, because the action's original player is still considered to be the player "targeting" that Courtier (Citation). (RE-UN-FIXED)
2) A player attempts to target one of my courtiers with an action, reacting with a Determination. Would the action still redirect to Seibei. Now I am familiar with the ruling that Misdirection cannot redirect an action played with a determination, but Seibei is worded differently, specifically: "would target a Courtier at Seibei's location". This leads me to believe that the courtier was never targeted in the first place, thus no redirection needs to take place, and despite the Determination the action will still target Seibei instead of the courtier. Is this correct?
Sorry, no. (Same citation link as above): "A phrase such as "before X would happen" is equivalent to "before X happens." The conditional mood indicated by "would" is irrelevant to the function of the "before" timing point." (This also applies to "when".)
A player, 7 September 2008
Just wanted to question the ruling here: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=70573
As I understand it, Shosuro Seibei triggers when another player would target a Courtier. Doesn't this mean that if I play Misdirection(in response to an opponent's action and before they choose targets) and choose to target a Courtier, Seibei will not trigger as I am the player doing the targetting, not my opponent? If not, can you please explain why?
Alex Jones (rules official), 8 September 2008
Just wanted to question the ruling here: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=70573
As I understand it, Shosuro Seibei triggers when another player would target a Courtier. Doesn't this mean that if I play Misdirection(in response to an opponent's action and before they choose targets) and choose to target a Courtier, Seibei will not trigger as I am the player doing the targetting, not my opponent? If not, can you please explain why?
No.
Misdirection doesn't change which player is considered to be doing the targeting; it only changes who chooses the targets. Choosing the targets and the targeting itself are separate facets of targeting.