Paying costs

L5R CCG Rules board, 21 August 2008 to 22 August 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 21 August 2008

Hi,

I have a question about paying costs, is it mandatory?

Title Ruthless Advance Text Battle: Pay Gold equal to the target unit's total Gold Cost minus 2: Destroy a target defending unit.

Title Misdirection Political Gozoku Reaction: Before another player would choose targets for one of his action’s effects during a battle, target one of your Courtier or Gozoku Personalities: You choose the targets instead.

Title Hired Killer Text Limited: Pay Gold equal to the target’s unit’s Gold Cost plus 2: Lose 3 Honor. Destroy a target Personality.

Title Seat of Power Reaction: When an action would target one of your Unique Clan Champion or Daimyo Personalities: The action instead targets another of your legal Personalities with the same Clan alignment at his location.

Opponent plays Ruthless Advance. I then use Misdirection to have him target 6g Unit. Let's say he doesn't have the the gold to pay the costs of Ruthless Advance (4g).

Another scenario is this My opponent Hired Killers my champion. I then use my Seat of Power to have him target a more expensive personality.

What happens?

a) Does he have the option to not pay the cost? If so, will the card get discarded or will it go back to his hand? b) If he has to pay the cost, does he have to pay as much as possible and let the action fail?

Thanks!

A player, 22 August 2008

I have a question about paying costs, is it mandatory?

Costs and restrictions, Mandatory costs: "Costs are mandatory by default."

Opponent plays Ruthless Advance. I then use Misdirection to have him target 6g Unit. Let's say he doesn't have the the gold to pay the costs of Ruthless Advance (4g). My opponent Hired Killers my champion. I then use my Seat of Power to have him target a more expensive personality. What happens?

Short answer: your opponent must pay the cost if he is able to; if he can't afford it then he pays nothing but his action doesn't resolve - although the ability is considered to have been used - and his card is discarded.

Long answer: Ruthless Advance and Hired Killer are typical actions whose mandatory variable cost depends on the action's targeting. Abilities and actions, C. Pay costs: "If a mandatory variable cost depends on the action's targeting, and the targeting is interfered with (while still being legal) such that the cost also changes, this counts as interfering with the payment of a mandatory cost."

Here are the consequences of interfering with the payment of a mandatory cost. Ibidem: "From the point when the action is announced legally to the point where the costs are required, if payment of an action's mandatory costs is interfered with, and the player taking the action cannot pay the costs another way, or chooses not to: * No effects of the action resolve; * The ability is considered to have been used; * The action is considered to have been taken, but not resolved; * No remaining costs need be paid, but costs already paid are not refunded. * If the cost was for a card to enter play, it is discarded."

However the cost of Ruthless Advance or Hired Killer is set after targeting, whereas Misdirection is played before choosing Ruthless Advance's target and Seat of Power is used when Hired Killer would target your Personality, therefore those interferences don't change the action's cost. As a consequence, your opponent must pay his action's cost if he can afford it. If he doesn't have enough Gold left then... Costs and restrictions, Mandatory costs: "If, due to interference from other effects, a mandatory cost cannot be paid at the point when it must be paid: * No remaining costs need be paid, but costs already paid are not refunded. * No effects of the action or trait resolve, and the ability or trait is considered to have been “used.” * If the cost was for a card to enter play, it is discarded."

At last the action ends and the Action card is discarded.

Read the rulings for Hired Killer and Ruthless Advance. See also "More on Hired Killer and Kumade".