A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
In regards to this ruling - viewtopic.php?f=59&t=69269
How is this different than using "Will" to create presence at a battlefield where there is no current army?
Will text - Dark Virtue Battle: If there are any enemy units at the current battlefield, target a dead Samurai Personality you own: Bring him into play there, paying 2 less Gold and ignoring Honor Requirements.
And if there is no difference, is Will now usable to create presence?
In regards to this ruling - viewtopic.php?f=59&t=69269
How is this different than using "Will" to create presence at a battlefield where there is no current army?
Will text - Dark Virtue Battle: If there are any enemy units at the current battlefield, target a dead Samurai Personality you own: Bring him into play there, paying 2 less Gold and ignoring Honor Requirements.
And if there is no difference, is Will now usable to create presence?
The difference is that Fatina's ability is a Reaction.
http://rules.l5r.com/Battles#Combat_Segment: "Reactions are not subject to rules of Presence and Location."
In response to "http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=69270";
Fatina - "Reaction: Even if Fatina is bowed, after a Personality is destroyed: Create a 2F/2C/0PH Shadowlands, Undead, Ghul Personality in your current army or your home. Lose 2 Honor."
Will - "Dark Virtue Battle: If there are any enemy units at the current battlefield, target a dead Samurai Personality you own: Bring him into play there, paying 2 less Gold and ignoring Honor Requirements."
Army - "One or more units in a given side at a battlefield. A side with no units is not an army."
Now this is excluded for the following... "When "army” is used to refer to a side of a battle that units are being moved to, assigned to, entering play in, or created in, this does not imply that an army must already exist there; the location can have no units to begin with, as an army is being brought into existence there."
So why is Will not able to be used to create presence at a battlefield, when the glossary states that it should be able to if an army is being brought into play there by the action? My reasoning being that if Will doesnt work, then Fatina would not as well, because the failed definition would be "army", not the lack of presence at the battlefield, since Will obviously creates a unit at the battlefield, no? (I tried to do a search on Will, but there are too many results).
Thx for explaining~
In response to "http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=69270";
Fatina - "Reaction: Even if Fatina is bowed, after a Personality is destroyed: Create a 2F/2C/0PH Shadowlands, Undead, Ghul Personality in your current army or your home. Lose 2 Honor."
Will - "Dark Virtue Battle: If there are any enemy units at the current battlefield, target a dead Samurai Personality you own: Bring him into play there, paying 2 less Gold and ignoring Honor Requirements."
Army - "One or more units in a given side at a battlefield. A side with no units is not an army."
Now this is excluded for the following... "When "army” is used to refer to a side of a battle that units are being moved to, assigned to, entering play in, or created in, this does not imply that an army must already exist there; the location can have no units to begin with, as an army is being brought into existence there."
So why is Will not able to be used to create presence at a battlefield, when the glossary states that it should be able to if an army is being brought into play there by the action? My reasoning being that if Will doesnt work, then Fatina would not as well, because the failed definition would be "army", not the lack of presence at the battlefield, since Will obviously creates a unit at the battlefield, no? (I tried to do a search on Will, but there are too many results).
Thx for explaining~
As a Battle action, Will must satisfy the Rules of Presence and Location. In particular, unlike, say, Unwavering Assault, it cannot create Presence:
The Rule of Presence: Battle actions can only be taken by a player who controls a unit at the current battlefield. EXCEPTION: A player who controls no units at the current battlefield can take an Action if its costs or effects say they can move one or more of his units there. He must then make choices within the action, if possible, such that it does move one or more of his units there, fulfilling Presence. This Exception does not apply to effects that create a unit, or cause a unit to enter play at the current battlefield; such effects still require pre-existing Presence.
Fatina's ability is a Reaction, so it does not need to satisfy Presence or Location.
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=69270
In relation to that thread I saw something I was hoping could be clarified, could just be picky reading or such but:
"Army - "One or more units in a given side at a battlefield. A side with no units is not an army."
"Fatina - "Reaction: Even if Fatina is bowed, after a Personality is destroyed: Create a 2F/2C/0PH Shadowlands, Undead, Ghul Personality in your current army or your home. Lose 2 Honor."
"This Exception does not apply to effects that create a unit, or cause a unit to enter play at the current battlefield; such effects still require pre-existing Presence."
At the point when Fatina's ability goes off, if there are no other Personalities in the Battlefield, it is no longer an "Army" as per the Definition of "Army"...so wouldn't it not be able to be created there due to no longer being valid by that?
At the point when Fatina's ability goes off, if there are no other Personalities in the Battlefield, it is no longer an "Army" as per the Definition of "Army"...so wouldn't it not be able to be created there due to no longer being valid by that?
Please use the search function before asking new questions. See "Fatina and empty armies" and the glossary for Army (emphasis added): "When “army” is used to refer to a side of a battle that units are being moved to, assigned to, entering play in, or created in, this does not imply that an army must already exist there; the location can have no units to begin with, as an army is being brought into existence there."