Making sure I understand Death Poem and Heated Discussion

L5R CCG Rules board, 29 May 2008 to 30 May 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 29 May 2008

Attempting to understand these two posts viewtopic.php?f=59&t=68332 viewtopic.php?f=59&t=68345 I know this is almost identical to what I asked but as i understand wounded in battle he is already out of the heated discussion before he would die from the 0 chi.

Assuming I have Kitsuki Mayako in play and my oppenent has a personality i can cause a chi death off a sneak.

If I play Death Poem and then play a heated discusion. I sneak and play an action which causes my oppenent chi to hit 0 (Muketsu, Scorpion box, just something that lowers him to 0).

0 chi He dies heated discussion negates the death and dishonors him. I gain one off Kitsuki Mayako. Death poem Rehonors him. since he is still at 0 chi we repeat the last 3 steps in a unending loop until time would be called. Would this loop be considered stalling and give me a loss? Since the loop never ends would it be considered a draw?

Pretty much same combo no unending loop this time. Death poem heated discusion my personality has blade of awe I play contested ground (for the sake of argument I've used Mirumoto Toshiyuki to give the blade of aw +2force tokens)

My oppenent passes I play contested ground IMy oppenent passes I bow blade of awe to blow up my oppenents person Heated discussion saves him I gain 1 honor off kitsuki mayako Death poem Rehonors him. If my oppenent continues to pass I can continue to blow him up till I gain as much honor as needed until we both pass ending the heated discussion correct?

A player, 30 May 2008

He dies [from zero Chi] heated discussion negates the death and dishonors him.

No. Heated Discussion's instantaneous substitution effects can no longer prevents destruction from zero Chi. Although Death Poem rehonors the Personality about to die, Heated Discussion does not dishonor her, thus you never gain Honor from your Kitsuki Mayako.

Card features, Specific stats, Chi (added May 30th): "Ongoing and instantaneous effects that negate destruction [...] will not negate destruction from zero Chi [...] This rule also applies to effects that substitute some other effect, such as dishonoring, for destruction. [...] If the substitution comes from an ongoing or instantaneous effect, then the substitution fails. "

I can continue to blow him up [thanks to Contested Ground] till I gain as much honor as needed until we both pass ending the heated discussion correct?

Correct. As a friendly reminder, please be cautious that neither your opponent nor any judge suspect you of stalling (see Floor rules, Game delay due to player).