At'tok'tuk Sensei and the Shadowlands horde Faction

L5R CCG Rules board, 13 May 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 13 May 2008

Hi,

for all this post, I am using the stronghold called : The Imperial Palace of Fuleng. This stronghold say that I can only bring into play shadowlands personalities.

Reading this page : http://rules.l5r.com/Legacy_Pregame_Rules#Legacy_Factions "-The Shadowlands Horde (They have no identifying keyword). The Shadowlands Horde is a special faction. It has no identifying keyword, and personalities can never be members of that faction regardless of card effects (EXCEPTION: All Sensei, and some game text describing a player’s alignment, use “Shadowlands” as shorthand for The Shadowlands Horde). Shadowlands Horde players do not gain or lose Honor, and cannot take Political actions, or cause other players an unconditional honor loss, unless their stronghold imposes different restrictions on honor or political actions. [exception ADDED April 08 2008]"

- How can I say if "Shadowlands" means the faction called "the Shadowlands Horde" or if it refers to the "Shadowlands trait" ? - If I use The Imperial Palace of Fu Leng with the At'tok'tuk Sensei, can I put ratling personalities into play even if they do not have the Shadowlands trait ? I think I can reading this page : http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=67908

- If it is possible, is the Corrupt Jade Vein producing gold equal to 2 + the number of personalities I control? => I can only control personalities member the shadowlands horde faction, does the corrupt jade vein count only personalities of the Shadowlands Horde Faction, only personalities with the shadowland trait, or both?

- If I use the Imperial Palace of Fu Leng, can I put Shiba Aikune XP3 into play if I pay it with a Corrupt Jade Vein? The corrupt Jade Vein will give the Shadowlands trait to Aikune, but Aikune cannot be member of my faction.

The Cards : At'tok'tuk Sensei : Crab. Mantis. Monk. Naga. Scorpion. Shadowlands. Unicorn. Sensei Your Ratling Personalities are members of your Clan. Ratling Followers will join you for 1 less Gold.

The Imperial Palace of Fu Leng : Your Stronghold produces 3 more Gold when paying for a Shadowlands card. You cannot gain or lose Honor. Your Personalities will not swear fealty. Your cards cannot perform or be targeted by Political actions. You may not bring non-Shadowlands Personalities into play.

Corrupt Jade Vein : Bow this card: Produce Gold equal to 2 plus the number of Shadowlands Personalities you control without the printed Shadowlands trait. If this pays for a Personality, permanently give him the Shadowlands trait.

Shiba Aikune XP3 : Text Phoenix Clan • Samurai • Hero • Experienced 3 • Unique While Aikune is home or the only Personality in an army, he has +3F and other players' card effects cannot bow or move him. Battle: Any number of times per turn, destroy a Personality in Aikune's army: Destroy two target cards opposing Aikune with no attachments. Force 6 Chi 5 Honor 8 Gold 9 Phonor 3

Thanks in advance, Best Regards, Rémi.

[Mod edit: Thread title. -ZF]

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 13 May 2008

How can I say if "Shadowlands" means the faction called "the Shadowlands Horde" or if it refers to the "Shadowlands trait" ?

When you see "Shadowlands Personalities", it means Personalities with the "Shadowlands" keyword, because there are no "Shadowlands Horde" Personalities; as you quoted, there is NO keyword to denote such a Personality. Again, as you quoted, "Shadowlands" is only used as shorthand for "The Shadowlands Horde" when on a Sensei or describing a player (and, by extension, his Stronghold).

On: At'tok'tuk Sensei, The Shadowlands Horde

If I use The Imperial Palace of Fu Leng with the At'tok'tuk Sensei, can I put ratling personalities into play even if they do not have the Shadowlands trait ?

No. Senseis that say certain cards are "members of your Clan" give those cards your Faction keyword. There is no "Shadowlands Horde" Faction keyword, so those Senseis do nothing for a Horde player. They do not give "Shadowlands" to such a player's Personalities because that's not a Faction keyword.

On: At'tok'tuk Sensei, The Imperial Palace of Fu Leng

If it is possible, is the Corrupt Jade Vein producing gold equal to 2 + the number of personalities I control? => I can only control personalities member the shadowlands horde faction, does the corrupt jade vein count only personalities of the Shadowlands Horde Faction, only personalities with the shadowland trait, or both?

I hope I've made it clear before, but I'll say again: There are no such thing as "Shadowlands Horde" Faction Personalities and no way for there to ever be any.

On: At'tok'tuk Sensei, Corrupt Jade Vein, The Shadowlands Horde

If I use the Imperial Palace of Fu Leng, can I put Shiba Aikune XP3 into play if I pay it with a Corrupt Jade Vein?

No. When attempting to bring a Personality into play, you check restrictions before you start paying. At that point, he doesn't have Shadowlands, so the process of bringing him into play halts before you can pay for him and have him gain Shadowlands from doing so.

Alex Jones (rules official), 13 May 2008

Darn, too slow!

I'll just add that if you want to bring Shiba Aikune exp3 (or anyone else who isn't Shadowlands) into play, you need to give him the keyword while he's sitting in your province - you'll need something like Black Finger River or Led Into Darkness!

Alex