Mirumoto Kei XP and Misdirection

L5R CCG Rules board, 29 April 2008 to 8 May 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 29 April 2008

Mirumoto Kei Dragon Clan • Daimyo • Samurai • Cavalry • Duelist • Tactician • Experienced • Unique • Loyal Battle: Kei challenges a target Unique Personality opposing her. Other players can not take Reactions while this action is being targeted and resolved. Destroy the loser.

Misdirection Focus Effect: You may shuffle up to 3 Personalities from your discard pile into your Dynasty deck. Political Gozoku Reaction: Before another player would choose targets for one of his action’s effects during a battle, target one of your Courtier or Gozoku Personalities: You choose the targets instead.

If my opponent uses Kei's ability to issue a duel, prior to choosing his target for the duel, can I use misdirection for it's reaction and choose whom Kei will challenge? I know from the wording I can't Turn of Fortune the duel, since that occurs after targeting, but Misdirection places the timing of resolution prior to the the targeting trigger of Kei's ability, so I would intuit that I can. But I'm not sure.

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 29 April 2008

Mirumoto Kei (Experienced): If my opponent uses Kei's ability to issue a duel, prior to choosing his target for the duel, can I use misdirection for its reaction and choose whom Kei will challenge?

Yes, because of Misdirection's "before" timing.

A player, 8 May 2008

Regarding this post:

Considering that the ruling regarding Determination vs Misdirection followup was done to stop misdirection from tampering with a "Determination" -ed action, how is the same not being applied to Mirumoto Kei's action?

I'd even say that her phrase would explicitly stop Misdirection since she says while the action is "being targeted" since it is explicitly referring to the active tense. If you're picking an apple, that would include looking at the apple, reaching for the apple, plucking the apple, and bringing it to whatever container you intend to place it in. Not just the moment you pluck it. Otherwise such a phrasing has no meaning in this game since all reactions (or at least any that I can think of) happen either before or after an event.

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 8 May 2008

Regarding this post:

Considering that the ruling regarding Determination vs Misdirection followup was done to stop misdirection from tampering with a "Determination" -ed action, how is the same not being applied to Mirumoto Kei's action?

I'd even say that her phrase would explicitly stop Misdirection since she says while the action is "being targeted" since it is explicitly referring to the active tense. If you're picking an apple, that would include looking at the apple, reaching for the apple, plucking the apple, and bringing it to whatever container you intend to place it in. Not just the moment you pluck it. Otherwise such a phrasing has no meaning in this game since all reactions (or at least any that I can think of) happen either before or after an event.

The wording and timing of Mirumoto Kei (Experienced) and Determination are different. Determination is played in advance of an action; Kei's effect is "while," and so cannot touch anything "before."

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 8 May 2008

Of course, I would write the post above mere moments before this was added to the rule wiki, which overrides the above ruling:

http://rules.l5r.com/Rulings_M#Mirumoto ... rienced.29: "Other players can not take reactions throughout the entire Required Targeting and Resolution steps of Kei's action."

So this extends the "no Misdirection" zone slightly. Misdirection cannot be used during Kei's action.