What are the "effects" created by Return to the Heavens?
What effect would the Shrine of the Sun have on the Event, would it remove the 2 created provinces, or have some other effect?
Sun of the Sun + Return to the Heavens
A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
What are the "effects" created by Return to the Heavens?
1. "Gain two provinces... to the left of your leftmost province."
2. "(D)estroy the province this Event resolved from."
What effect would the Shrine of the Sun have on the Event(?)
Not a lot.
Shrine of the Sun negates "ongoing" effects (card text). Creating something isn't ongoing; it's instantaneous (http://rules.l5r.com/Effects#Duration_of_effects).
Regarding http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=66255:
Return to the Heavens also makes the two created provinces "permanently" not able to hold Dynasty cards. Is this not a separate, ongoing effect? It does not "involve a change in the game state that is officially recorded by changing the position, orientation, or count of a physical game element." Also, it has a duration. This would would lead me to believe that this aspect of Return to the Heavens is ongoing, not instantaneous, and can, therefore, be negated by Shrine of the Sun.
Regarding http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=66255:
Return to the Heavens also makes the two created provinces "permanently" not able to hold Dynasty cards. Is this not a separate, ongoing effect? It does not "involve a change in the game state that is officially recorded by changing the position, orientation, or count of a physical game element." Also, it has a duration. This would would lead me to believe that this aspect of Return to the Heavens is ongoing, not instantaneous, and can, therefore, be negated by Shrine of the Sun.
My initial thinking was that it was just a feature of the created Provinces. But there is that word "permanently" in there.
So yes, Shrine of the Sun would allow those Provinces to be filled immediately (http://rules.l5r.com/Areas_of_the_game# ... of_play.29).
re: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=66255
Shrine of the Sun negates ongoing effects of an Event. Return to the Heavens has one Instantaneous effect and one Ongoing effect (unless I misread how Ongoing is defined): Instantaneous: Create two provinces. Ongoing: These two provinces never hold Dynasty cards.
Is this correct?
re: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=66255
Shrine of the Sun negates ongoing effects of an Event. Return to the Heavens has one Instantaneous effect and one Ongoing effect (unless I misread how Ongoing is defined): Instantaneous: Create two provinces. Ongoing: These two provinces never hold Dynasty cards.
Is this correct?
Two instant effects (you forgot Province destruction) but otherwise, yes, that's how it looks.
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=66255
To be clear, this doesn't work on your own resolution of Return to the Heavens due to the wording on Shrine of the Sun, right?
Limited: Bow and destroy this card: Target an Event in a discard pile or in play owned by another player. End all its ongoing effects. Shuffle it into its owner’s deck. That player can resolve the Event an additional time this game.
Thanks,
-Steve
To be clear, this doesn't work on your own resolution of Return to the Heavens due to the wording on Shrine of the Sun, right?
Right.