A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 4 March 2008
Determination: Dark Virtue Reaction: Before you announce an action, target one of your Samurai: The action can not have its effects negated or have its targeting changed. After the action destroys any Personality, remove him from the game.
Desperate Wager: You can play only one Desperate Wager per turn. Reaction: Before your Dynasty Phase begins: Straighten all your Personalities. Declare an additional Attack Phase. After its Declaration Segment, straighten all the Defender’s Personalities and Followers; this straightening can not be negated. You lose the game at the end of this turn.
Can I play one Desperate Wager, and then bypass the Desperate Wager's restriction of One-per-Turn by playing Determination and following up with the second Desperate Wager?
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 4 March 2008
Can I play one Desperate Wager, and then bypass the Desperate Wager's restriction of One-per-Turn by playing Determination and following up with the second Desperate Wager?
No.
"You can play only one Desperate Wager per turn" is not preceded by Limited, Open, Battle, or Reaction. Thus, it is not the effect of an action and is not touched by Determination.
A player, 4 March 2008
quote="Zen" No.
"You can play only one Desperate Wager per turn" is not preceded by Limited, Open, Battle, or Reaction. Thus, it is not the effect of an action and is not touched by Determination. [/quote]
Either this answer opens up a whole new can of worms (saying that Determination only prevents negation from actions) or the original question was misunderstood.
Clarification Questions:
A) Does Determination only stop negation from actions? (When there's nothing on the card saying anything about the negation having to come from an action) B) Is "You can play only one Desperate Wager per turn" a negation effect?
Martin Lund (rules official), 4 March 2008
quote="Zen" No.
"You can play only one Desperate Wager per turn" is not preceded by Limited, Open, Battle, or Reaction. Thus, it is not the effect of an action and is not touched by Determination. [/quote]
Either this answer opens up a whole new can of worms (saying that Determination only prevents negation from actions) or the original question was misunderstood.
Clarification Questions:
A) Does Determination only stop negation from actions? (When there's nothing on the card saying anything about the negation having to come from an action) B) Is "You can play only one Desperate Wager per turn" a negation effect?
"You can play only one Desperate Wager per turn." has nothing to do with Negating Effects or Targeting, so Determination doesn't impact it in the slightest.
Determination does not circumvent play restrictions of the Action you are attempting to use it on.
A player, 4 March 2008
Regarding this : viewtopic.php?f=59&t=66145
I always read that Determination can go around trait such as Sozen XP and XP2 "cannot die" and it was ruled here
So, did something change?
Martin Lund (rules official), 4 March 2008
Regarding this : viewtopic.php?f=59&t=66145
I always read that Determination can go around trait such as Sozen XP and XP2 "cannot die" and it was ruled here
So, did something change?
Determination says, "Dark Virtue Reaction: Before you announce an action, target one of your Samurai: The action can not have its effects negated or have its targeting changed. After the action destroys any Personality, remove him from the game."
Restrictions of Actions do not Negate Effects or Change Targets, so Determination certainly doesn't let you play an Action ignoring its own card's Restrictions such as "You can play only one Desperate Wager per turn."
That's not an Effect that causes Negation - it's a Restriction the constrains the legality of playing the card itself.
A player, 4 March 2008
Regarding this : viewtopic.php?f=59&t=66157
I perfectly understand (and agree with for what it's worth) your reasoning Marty (should have been clearer, sorry), I was wondering about Zen answer.
(sorry, but not being able to answer can sometimes be not very practical)
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 4 March 2008
Regarding this : viewtopic.php?f=59&t=66157
I perfectly understand (and agree with for what it's worth) your reasoning Marty (should have been clearer, sorry), I was wondering about Zen answer.
(sorry, but not being able to answer can sometimes be not very practical)
Sorry for the less than clear explanation, folks. Marty got it: restrictions aren't negation.