A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 27 February 2008
I have a doubt concerning how this two cards can interact :
Relevant texts : Triumph of Courage : Focus Effect: You may switch one of your focused cards with a card in your Fate discard pile. After this duel resolves, your focused cards are removed from the game instead of discarded.
Hachiwari : Focus Effect: After this duel resolves, you may target your Personality in the duel if he is still in play, or any other of your Personalities if he is not. Attach this card to the target, waiving its Gold Cost.
rules.l5r.com, about duels : J: Discard all focused cards. End any changes to their Focus Value. Each player puts any cards remaining in his or her focus pool at the bottom of his or her Fate deck in any order. Duel resolution, and the duel, now end.
First question : If the discarded cards goes to the discard pile, then the duel resolve, how can Triumph of Courage "removal from the game" can be an "instead" effect?
Second question : If step J is right, then what happens to Hachiwari when it is focused (via Text of Courage or just focused)? Because, Hachiwari goes to the discard pile (step J of Duels step by step), then tries to attach (looks like it tries to attach from the discard pile) and at the same time is "removed from the game intead of being discarded" due to Triumph of Courage. Does it fall down to who is active player due to effect timing conflict?
Thanks
Martin Lund (rules official), 3 March 2008
I have a doubt concerning how this two cards can interact :
Relevant texts : Triumph of Courage : Focus Effect: You may switch one of your focused cards with a card in your Fate discard pile. After this duel resolves, your focused cards are removed from the game instead of discarded.
Hachiwari : Focus Effect: After this duel resolves, you may target your Personality in the duel if he is still in play, or any other of your Personalities if he is not. Attach this card to the target, waiving its Gold Cost.
rules.l5r.com, about duels : J: Discard all focused cards. End any changes to their Focus Value. Each player puts any cards remaining in his or her focus pool at the bottom of his or her Fate deck in any order. Duel resolution, and the duel, now end.
First question : If the discarded cards goes to the discard pile, then the duel resolve, how can Triumph of Courage "removal from the game" can be an "instead" effect?
Second question : If step J is right, then what happens to Hachiwari when it is focused (via Text of Courage or just focused)? Because, Hachiwari goes to the discard pile (step J of Duels step by step), then tries to attach (looks like it tries to attach from the discard pile) and at the same time is "removed from the game intead of being discarded" due to Triumph of Courage. Does it fall down to who is active player due to effect timing conflict?
Thanks
We are actually hashing this one out in Junta now, so I hope to get your a result soon.
Sit tight.
Martin Lund (rules official), 6 March 2008
J: Duel resolution, and the duel, now end. In order:
Discard all focused cards. End any changes to their Focus Value. Each player puts any cards remaining in his or her focus pool at the bottom of his or her Fate deck in any order.
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