Heated Discussion and Utter Defeat timing issue

L5R CCG Rules board, 23 January 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 23 January 2008

After searching the rules forum and reading the comprehensive rules site on timing, I still haven't figured this out

I have played Heated Discussion. My opponent eventually loses the battle. Can i play Utter Defeat, timed at the battle resolution segment, on one of his personalities?

Title: Heated Discussion Political Limited: Target another player's Personality. Create a battlefield and assign him to defend there. Assign any number of your Courtier or Magistrate Personalities to attack there. The Defender may then assign any of his Courtier or Magistrate Personalities there. Fight the battle. During the battle, before any Personality is destroyed, dishonor him instead.

Title: Utter Defeat Reaction: Before a Personality is destroyed by a battle resolution or for losing a duel: He is completely humiliated. Negate the destruction. Dishonor him. While he remains in play, he can not be rehonored, can not commit seppukku except from a card’s effect, and his controller loses 1 Honor after each of his Dynasty Phases begins.

Thank you in advance for your time.

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 23 January 2008

After searching the rules forum and reading the comprehensive rules site on timing, I still haven't figured this out

I have played Heated Discussion. My opponent eventually loses the battle. Can i play Utter Defeat, timed at the battle resolution segment, on one of his personalities?

No. Destruction is never going to occur under Heated Discussion, so there is no trigger for Utter Defeat. http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_I-J#Instead.