A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 14 January 2008
I'd like to find out how Countermove interacts with personalities that have already been in battle resolution for the turn. I believe it would work as follows:
Suppose personality A and B are both tacticians. Personality A attacks province #1; B attacks province #2. Province #1 resolves, and A goes home bowed due to battle resolution. At province #2, I target A and one of the enemy leader's personalities at home with Countermove. My personality may not move into the battle due to having already been in battle resolution. My opponent's personality moves into the battle at province #2. My personality, and the opponents both straighten. Is this correct?
Assuming this above is legal, could I also perform the above series of actions if I only had personality A? ie Personality A attacks and sees battle resolution at province #1. I play countermove at province #2 without presence to attempt to move mine and the oppoent's personality in, and straightening personality A at home.
Countermove Tactical Battle: Target one of your Tacticians who is not at the current battlefield: Target one of the enemy leader’s Personalities who is not at the current battlefield. Move both targets to the current battlefield. Straighten their units.
Martin Lund (rules official), 15 January 2008
Suppose personality A and B are both tacticians. Personality A attacks province #1; B attacks province #2. Province #1 resolves, and A goes home bowed due to battle resolution. At province #2, I target A and one of the enemy leader's personalities at home with Countermove. My personality may not move into the battle due to having already been in battle resolution. My opponent's personality moves into the battle at province #2. My personality, and the opponents both straighten. Is this correct?
Yes. The Rule of Location only requires that the Action's effect states that it moves the target Personalities. It does not care if other card effects or rules will prevent the targets from actually moving.
Further, even if one effect of the Action is Negated or Fails, the other effects attempt to resolve as normal. Thus even if the movement is Negated, the straightening still happens.
This is why you see some card say, "Move X. If X moved, straighten him," because then you don't straighten unless you actually moved.
Assuming this above is legal, could I also perform the above series of actions if I only had personality A? ie Personality A attacks and sees battle resolution at province #1. I play countermove at province #2 without presence to attempt to move mine and the oppoent's personality in, and straightening personality A at home.
Yes. Again, Presence and Location only care that the Action instructs you to move the target. They do not check to see if outside effects or rules would stop the movement effect.
A player, 15 January 2008
In reference to this question about Countermove.
It seems to me that Marty's answer is opposite to Zen's rulings about Moto Chagatai XP4 and Unwavering Assault or about Rapid Deployment (confirmed there).
In the example previously given about Countermove, if I understand correctly Zen's changes in the CR (see "Glossary, Move" for instance) and his rulings above, Coutermove can't be played because "Personality A" isn't a legal target. If I am wrong, may you explain why please ?
Thanks for clarifying.
Martin Lund (rules official), 15 January 2008
In reference to this question about Countermove.
It seems to me that Marty's answer is opposite to Zen's rulings about Moto Chagatai XP4 and Unwavering Assault or about Rapid Deployment (confirmed there).
In the example previously given about Countermove, if I understand correctly Zen's changes in the CR (see "Glossary, Move" for instance) and his rulings above, Coutermove can't be played because "Personality A" isn't a legal target. If I am wrong, may you explain why please ?
Thanks for clarifying.
We'd hashed this out in Junta already. I though the CR had been updated to reflect this. I'll take care of it now.