A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 23 July 2007
In reference to this, I apologize for my poor knowledge of the rules but I don't understand why "Takeko still has the original +1F while in the Discard Pile until the end of the turn since on-going effects do not end early just because the card their effected leaves play. They only go away if the card becomes mixed up with other cards face-down - typically by being put back into a Deck or Hand" (these are the last sentences in Mr Lund's Answer).
Indeed I wrongly thought that effects couldn't apply to out-of-play cards such as dead personalities. I made a wrong interpretation of the text in the 'Implications of in and out of play' part of the 'PHYSICALLY MARKED CARD STATES' chapter : "cards that are not in play are not affected by effects" and also in the 'Effects in and out of play' part of the 'EFFECTS' chapter : "effects only apply to cards that are either in play, or in a temporary focusing, entering-play, or resolution area".
Forgive my unfortunate lack of cleverness but would it be disrespectful to ask why "Takeko still has the original +1F while in the Discard Pile until the end of the turn" in the given example, please ?
Is it specifically due to the fact that this effect is on-going or might I suppose that continuous effects would also apply to Takeko ? For instance, if I control the Valley of Heroes and I play Astonishing Resilience when my hero Takeko is destroyed, does she also get the Force bonus from the Valley as long as she remains dead ?
Thanks for your precious help.
Martin Lund (rules official), 23 July 2007
In reference to this, I apologize for my poor knowledge of the rules but I don't understand why "Takeko still has the original +1F while in the Discard Pile until the end of the turn since on-going effects do not end early just because the card their effected leaves play. They only go away if the card becomes mixed up with other cards face-down - typically by being put back into a Deck or Hand" (these are the last sentences in Mr Lund's Answer).
Indeed I wrongly thought that effects couldn't apply to out-of-play cards such as dead personalities. I made a wrong interpretation of the text in the 'Implications of in and out of play' part of the 'PHYSICALLY MARKED CARD STATES' chapter : "cards that are not in play are not affected by effects" and also in the 'Effects in and out of play' part of the 'EFFECTS' chapter : "effects only apply to cards that are either in play, or in a temporary focusing, entering-play, or resolution area".
Forgive my unfortunate lack of cleverness but would it be disrespectful to ask why "Takeko still has the original +1F while in the Discard Pile until the end of the turn" in the given example, please ?
Is it specifically due to the fact that this effect is on-going or might I suppose that continuous effects would also apply to Takeko ? For instance, if I control the Valley of Heroes and I play Astonishing Resilience when my hero Takeko is destroyed, does she also get the Force bonus from the Valley as long as she remains dead ?
Thanks for your precious help.
The +1 Force bonus Takeko gains is an On-Going Effect. It has its own duration (until the end of the turn) and does not end prematurely due to her leaving play.
Leaving play does not remove all effects or alterations already on a card (some states, like Bowed or Unbowed, however, do not exist outside of the in-play area) - becoming face-down and mixed with other face-down cards does (as per the Tracking Rule).
When a card it out of play, one can not normally apply an effect to it. However, On-Going effects that have already been applied to it legally, however, continue on until their duration expires. Nothing says to prematurely end the effect. Nor will any Instantaneous Effects normally be undone. A Dishonorable Personality, for example, becomes Dishonorable Dead.
This is not Magic: The Gathering, where every time a card changes zones it is treated as a new copy of that card.
I can see how the "Effects in and out of play" section might mislead someone to believe that On-Going effects are Negated by a card's out-of-play status, though. I'll speak to Roger about clarifying that part of the Comprehensive Rules.
Valley of Heroes would not apply as it is a Continuous Effect.