Face down cards

L5R CCG Rules board, 25 March 2005

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from the Wayback Machine (its copy), so posts it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 25 March 2005

Is a player allowed to change the order of the face down cards that make up his hand? I seem to remember a ruling that you cannot change the order or position of any face down card unless a card effect does so. But there is nothing in the accumulated rulings. This is particulary relevant to Bayushi Kamnan xp:

Scorpian Clan Samurai. Spy. Experienced. Unique Limited: Once per turn, permanently lose two Chi to look at up to four face-down cards. You may then pay 2 Gold to discard one.

For example can a player, given that he has already used Kamnan on his opponent's hand and that the opponent has drawn more cards in between the 2 uses of Kamnan, then ask to see card X and Y (that were previously shown to him) and the 2 new cards that were drawn?

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 25 March 2005

Is a player allowed to change the order of the face down cards that make up his hand?

Yes. (Edit: Correction.)

But there is nothing in the accumulated rulings.

It will be in the next update; the general rule section now titled "Draw" will be renamed "Drawing and looking."

Jeff Alexander (rules official), 25 March 2005

I think Zen may have misread the questions, especially since he gave only one answer.

Yes, players can freely rearrange the cards in their hands, in general. There are no rules allowing it, but there are none prohibiting it either, and prohibiting it would cause many issues with supposedly hidden information becoming compromised.

Rearranging them in the middle of Kamnan's effect is irrelevant. The player who saw the cards specifies which one of the four he's seen is to be discarded. There is no way to "dodge out of the way" of this effect by physically hiding and moving the card between when it's seen and when it's picked. The ones he's seen remain the ones he's seen no matter what.

Kamnan's player may not demand to see again the cards he saw the first time upon re-using Kamnan's ability in the same turn. He is not allowed to pick which cards to see based on past information which is now hidden to him.