Unit Destruction, Victorious Wave Men, Diligent Care

L5R CCG Rules board, 20 March 2015 to 19 May 2015

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 20 March 2015

Regarding this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=112750&p=1460502&

For as long as I can remember, this has been the case. The rulebook is responsible for disposing of attachments whose Personality has been destroyed via a non "unit-kill" card.

However, in light of Diligent Care, does this really still apply? I ask because the text on Diligent care is styled as reminder text, which would imply that the "destroyed by the rulebook" no longer applies.

For example, my personality with Victorious Wave Men loses a lethal duel, which only explicitly kills the Personality. According to the referenced ruling, I would be unable to trigger the follower's trait. However, according to Diligent Care, I could put the Wave Men back in my hand after using its own interrupt.

So what is the interaction here? If I don't have Diligent Care in play, I can't save the Wave Men, but if I do, I can (only by its Interrupt)? All of this based on so-called "Reminder text?"

A player, 7 April 2015

I also would like an answer to this question:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=113083

Any chance of a ruling soon?

Roger Giner-Sorolla (rules official), 14 April 2015

“For” wording only refers to a specifically named consequence of the effect, not to a consequence arising from a chain of contingent effects.

Example: In the case above, if a dishonorable Personality is destroyed for losing a duel, and his controller loses Honor, this is not an Honor loss “for” losing the duel, but an Honor loss for dying.

We will be discussing this and have a final answer this week; in the meantime, play the card as the reminder text indicates.

A player, 1 May 2015

Regarding this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=113083#p1465321

Roger said there would be a final answer that week; it's been two since he posted. He said to play Diligent Care as the reminder text indicated, but what, if anything does that mean for Victorious Wave Men and non-unit "unit destruction" (Personality killed by a duel, attachments destroyed by rulebook)?

If Diligent Care is to be played as the reminder text indicates, is this going to be a change to the wording of Diligent care itself, or a change to the way the rulebook destruction interacts with things that trigger on an action's destruction?

Jon Palmer (rules official), 1 May 2015

Regarding this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=113083#p1465321

Roger said there would be a final answer that week; it's been two since he posted. He said to play Diligent Care as the reminder text indicated, but what, if anything does that mean for Victorious Wave Men and non-unit "unit destruction" (Personality killed by a duel, attachments destroyed by rulebook)?

If Diligent Care is to be played as the reminder text indicates, is this going to be a change to the wording of Diligent care itself, or a change to the way the rulebook destruction interacts with things that trigger on an action's destruction?

Until Roger prepares a final answer, please continue to play Diligent Care as he as instructed. Do not extrapolate this to any other cards. Thanks!

Alex Jones (rules official), 19 May 2015

Errata has been issued to Diligent Care.

Alex